Alderley Edge Parish Council are hoping to take ownership of the three allotment sites in the village as soon as possible and propose to turn one of the sites into a car park.
Councillors voted at last night's meeting to take ownership from Cheshire East of the allotments on Heyes Lane, Beech Close and Chorley Hall Lane and agreed to request that they take them over as early as they can.
Cllr Frank Keegan said "The Parish Council faces major challenges regarding parking in the future, and they need to plan ahead in order to secure a good short stay parking offer for retail visitors. Land is a scarce resource and the village needs to maximise its resources for the benefit of all local taxpayers, including business ratepayers.
"The Parish Council recognise that not all of the allotment holders live within the village and they will relocate the Heyes Lane allotment holders to a separate site within the village. Legislation facilitates the relocation of allotment holders to a suitable site within a reasonable distance of a current site, and the Parish Council will comply with the legislation.
"Legislation puts the onus on local councils to satisfy the demand for allotments, and there is currently a long waiting list for allotments. In moving the Heyes Lane allotments, the Parish Council could virtually wipe out the waiting list in one fell swoop.
"The inconvenience to the Heyes Lane allotment holders is unfortunate, but the public gain for parking and for the waiting list outweighs the inconvenience to allotment holders, not all of whom live within the village."
On Tuesday, 27th September, Cllr Frank Keegan met with allotment holders to put forward proposals to relocate the Heyes Lane allotments, adjacent to the Festival Hall, to a site at the end of Lydiat Lane which is currently owned by Alderley Edge School for Girls.
Ian Copeland, Chairman of Alderley Edge Allotment Society, told me "We had a vote at the end of the meeting and the tenants are not wishing to entertain vacating the site. They will take another look at this in a week's time.
"I'm very neutral on the matter. My role as chairman is to seek to ensure the proposal is explained to tenants and everyone has the chance to ask questions. I need to make sure everyone has a good understanding and everyone has a fair hearing.
"It's really down to the tenants who have agreed to set up a sub-committee to take this forward and see what the Parish Council's next steps are. There are 26 plots at the Heyes Lane site, several of which are double plots so there are 20 tenants who will be affected."
Cllr Keegan has since written to the Secretary of the Allotment Society asking for more information about membership, how many vacant plots there are and the waiting list. The allotment holders will be providing this information after their meeting next week.
Cllr Mike Williamson said "It's a strategic development for the village that will answer some long term problems in the village and be done with as little inconvenience to the allotment holders as possible."
Cllr Keegan confirmed at last night's meeting that the proposed site, behind Netherfields, is two and a half times the size of the Heyes Lane site and they would expect to fit about 55 allotment plots on the land.
When asked by Cllr Mary Maczkowiak what the response had been from the allotment holders he replied, "Its pretty fair to say they weren't jumping up and down, they didn't want to do it."
He went on to say "It is a question of discussing with the Allotment Society to see what the impact on the growing season would be and to find the most suitable time to do that.
"We don't have an obligation to provide for other residents, we don't need to move all the people who aren't Alderley Edge residents but that's not a policy we wish to adopt."
Sue Goff, Headmistress at Alderley Edge School for Girls, said " I can confirm that Alderley Edge School for Girls was approached by Alderley Edge Parish Council regarding a plot of land at Lydiat Lane but no decisions have been finalised regarding this matter yet."
Cllr Keegan is also looking into the possibility of relocating the Alderley Motor Co. from Trafford Road to the land on Heyes Lane which is currently occupied by the allotments.
Speaking about the garage, which is under threat of demolition because a planning application has been submitted to replace it with housing, Cllr Keegan said "Of course I support the idea of saving Alderley Edge Motor Co. within the village. There is a very firm order of things we have to keep that order."
It was agreed at last night's Parish Council meeting that Cllr Mike Williamson would write to Erika Wenzel, Chief Executive of Cheshire East Council, asking for a meeting asap to consult with her and ask for a way forward to make the transfer of the allotments happen as early as possible.
He said "The situation is we don't know what the offer will be but the suggestion is they will be transferred without funding. My intention is to try and get something out of them but it won't be a lot.
"If there is a funding issue we will have to put what money we think we can afford over the years but if we are taxing Alderley Edge residents then we need to make sure the allotments are being used by Alderley Edge residents or at least if there is a waiting list the allotments go to Alderley Edge residents."
Comments
Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add your thoughts below.
I don't think I've ever heard the word Allotment said with such venom as when Frank Keegan replied on our behalf when asked why I and another plot holder had come to the meeting.
Local democracy in action...
Regarding who had an allotment. It's been Cheshire policy to allow anyone in the councils area to apply for any site in that area.
The councillors blindly voted for something which they had not engough information on. I could have told them the rents etc but I wasn't allowed to speak. The Parish Council needs to get more involved in this and engage with the allotment society and tenants. Not just leaving it all to one Councellor.
Vin, I think the hierarchy of needs is more towards employment and the sustainability of the village fabric. We need local jobs and we need a local retail offer, otherwise everyone has to leave the village to do shopping. We have residents who can only walk to the shops, so we need the shops to be viable and to make them viable we need increased footfall. I don't apologise for thinking that we need to cater for the ageing population rather than 20 allotment holders (not all of whom live in Alderley Edge)
It is not productive to reduce the debate to abuse of local councillors; in 1974, the Allotments were only for Alderley Edge. When we went into Macclesfield, then anyone from Macclesfield could apply for an allotment anywhere in Macc Borough, on the grounds that taxpayers from Macc Borough were paying for the allotments. Now that they are coming back to AEPC, the nice Chairman, Cllr Mike Williamson, (who has given about 15 years of his time to the village Council!!) has stated that it is not the Council's intention to change the status of the current allotments. However, the allotment holders need to understand that the Parish Council will act in the best interests of the whole village, because we have a responsibility to serve 3,500 people and not just the "allotment 20"
to suggest the garage could also move to the heyes lane site is abit out of order as that implies its all cut and dry that the planning will sail through regardless of public opinion. how many people outside of the village is this medical centre catering for as it will need a larger car park than is already there? parish council/ dobbies all the bloody same grab land stuff the residents grrrrr
If you can't see that, then that's not my problem. You did come off being quite rude and arrogant.
Beech Close and Chorley Hall Lane are Allotment sites which sit naturally in their surroundings.
When the Parish used to enter the best kept village competition, we had regular complaints from the Inspectors that the village would not win any prizes because of the unkempt nature of the Heyes Lane Allotments - they did not sit naturally in a residential area, especially since they looked "neglected" according to the Inspectors.
The only firm announcement which the Parish has made is that Heyes Lane allotments will be relocated to a site which is 250% bigger; whatever else happens on that site will be decided after a consultation with the people of AE!
The Parish Council will present plans to enhance the village, and the local residents will have a say in their own future. Personally, I like the idea of democracy and not allotmocracy - all the people are allowed a vote and not just the 20 on HL allotments.
There is a waiting list of 40 for Allotments within AE. If Heyes Lane has 26 Allotments then the new site will be able to take 65 allotments (250% increase). Instead of waiting years and years there are 40 people who would welcome a new site now!
How many people drive to HL allotments? How many walk? Lydiat Lane is behind De Trafford, it is not miles away. Allotment holders can easily access the new site, which is the requirement of the legislation.
Sustainability is about having a village that is used by local people. That means having local shops that 99% of the taxpayers can use for their every day shopping. The expansion of Restaurants is what brings in outside visitors, and we must have had enough of those. Extra parking ability means more people can stay around and use our butcher, our baker, our post office, our food shops andour newsagents. If we don't make it easy for people to arrive, and to stay, then gradually we will lose our current shops.
It is better at finding a space to park in the village now - but shops complain that 1 hour is not long enough for people to come, stop, shop. We are short of "browse time".
But thanks for the thought that some more parking spaces turns us into an out of town shopping centre. Eat your heart out, Trafford Centre!
a hospital - gone
a pub - gone
allotments - under threat
a newsagents - gone
an auction room - gone
and Granthams - thankfully still here!
30 years down the line Alderley Edge now wants a medical center, the cottage hospital would have been prefect, but it is gone.
Will our kids in 30 years time thank us for tarmacing over the allotments?
Places like allotments are a big contributor to community life, especially for older people where the daily contact with others becomes a life line. I have dug from scratch two allotments in my life, it is back breaking work. Most older people on Heyes Lane altoments are not going to be physically able to build a new allotment, they will have to drop out.
The commmuters who use Alderley Edge train station will be very pleased with a car park on Heyes Lane.
The shoppers will think it too far away to carry back shopping to.
Mr Keegan, who will this benefit?
Signs like
No dogs and children from outside Alderley to enter these facilities.
Im beginning to see Cheshire East in a warmer light the alternative looks scary
I think in 30 yrs time the younger people will look back and think what a great piece of leadership it was for a Parish Council to actually shape its environment. The Festival Hall needs to be revamped; it needs to play a bigger role in the life of the village.
The Parish Council can only deal with the current issues, not the past issues. I hope allotment holders don't drop out, but I think the revamped hall has the potential to be a big contributor to community life.
The medical centre is being built on the front of the Festival Hall - the Parish Council fought to keep the Cottage Hospital, 'cos I was on the stage at the public meeting. But the Hospital Trust sold the site, and now we have a need for new facilities for the village. It is just a fact of life that there is no suitable site for a new build facility where the land is given for free - the PC owns the hall and the site, and we are making the site available for free to the medical practice.
We could have said "this is not our problem" and just left it. Instead, we have been proactive and we have facilitated what will turn out to be a great improvement for an ageing population. I think that the discomfort suffered by the allotment holders will be more than outweighed by the benefit to the rest of the village.
"Allotments for Alderley Edge Residents only wow you couldnt make it up wait till this parish council gets hold of the local parks.. "
Just to be clear, that's what allotments are for - local residents.
Check out the legislation from the mid 50s. If you want allotments for your own village you can muster support and appeal for them. Don't imagine this is a Parish Council Plot, it's a time-honoured right of local parishioners.
As it stands, the Alderley Edge Allotment and Gardens Association does a great job for the Alderley Edge residents requiring allotment space. And it seems as though the Alderley Edge Parish Council are considering their legal obligations, should a site need to be relocated. And more besides - recognising the fact that there is a waiting list. Let's see how it goes.
Heather you make some valid points whilst Councillor keegans begin to look suspect under close scrutiny.
1. A car park to benefit ageing residents (not according to my grandmother who says its to far for her to walk from there to the shops )
2. Relocating the garage honourable but who is going to pay for the construction of this building and have the local residents of Heyes Lane been consulted
3. Proposed new site for allotments the land owner AESG have not i understand even indicated they will agree to this move.
The losers in all this will be the elder members of the allotments
The winners hard to see but commuters to Manchester will have a nice new place to park
Leadership not in my name
Heyes Lane is a residential road (although the 30mph needs reinforcing) and we need to fight to keep it that way. Customers that use the shops will not use this car park as they don't use the current Festival Hall car park now! so that arguement is non existant in my opinion.
I think the council should inject some funds into making the Heyes Lane allotments look more appealing to the eye.
Alderley Edge is no longer a village and this only makes me feel very sad as to what the future holds for our community.
I dread this to happen.
I agree with Heather (again!) - it will just be a long-stay car park for commuters using the station.
*humming a well-known Joni Mitchell song*
Perhaps more effort should go on things already agreed , like illegal parking , and buildings without planning permission ....
It is a long time since I commuted into Manchester, but my impression is that the volume of train commuters has decreased. Why would they pay on a Heyes Lane car park when they can park on the Ryleys Lane car park for free! Besides, HL can be restricted hours, for example 3 hrs max. But, why are commuters discriminated against, anyway? Do they not pay taxes?
AESG - afraid your info re them is way, way off beam.
Garage would not be a drain on the public purse.
Using HL as a car park will increase the options available to the PC when thinking of parking problems around the village, and the allotment holders will have a better site on Lydiat Lane, no trees around to spoil their allotment, and no waiting list.
People have commented that Heyes Lanes allotments are untidy. The AEAGS have worked on improving this site over the last 2 years with our own money. But we have have had issues with water from the festival hall car park not being drained away properly. Hense two plots are not usable.
There are a number of new tennets on this site but if the site is constantley threatened who will want to take a plot there? is this the plan, keep threating it and eventually it goes?
The car park will be used for the train station and not for shops.
If Alderley Motors need help moving then they should go to the bank not the PC, or perhaps planning permission should not have been given for housing on that site! I believe they were approched by someone the PC to help move out...
In the words of Captain Blackadder from Blackadder "I smell something fishey, and I'm not talking about the contents of Baldricks apple crumble"
I would advice anyone intrested in this or other village matters to attend the Parish council meeting early November to attend.
The threat to Alderley Motors started seven years ago, and the landlord has been patient for that time, and the village has been enjoying a car repair service which could otherwise have disappeared. I am pleased to have played a part in keeping the garage open in that time, and the village ought to think where the 1,500 customers of the garage will have to go to have their cars serviced, if it disappears.
I bought a volvo 240, when Wallworks was at the corner of Chapel Rd/London Rd. When my volvo V70 broke down in Mobberley last year, the AA man asked me where I wanted it taken to, and he was pleased it was Trafford Rd, because the nearest Volvo dealer now is Stoke, and he wanted to get home for his tea.
The really good news is that the land at Lydiat Lane is happening, the Allotments are voted both at Cheshire East and Alderley Edge to come back to the Parish. The allotment holders will have extra allotments and the village will retain facilities. Good news story as far as I can see!
This means they are taking up spaces the people coming into AE need!! So most people park down Clifton Street and Lydiat Lane anyway so putting a long stay car park at the bottom of it would make sense no?
I know from living on Lydiat Lane for 5 year there is a major problem with parking but the council need to think about where people are currently parking most and try and cater around there!! What is to say the move goes ahead but what happens when NO one parks there coz its not where people want to be!!
The suggestion to open up a green belt site, accessed through a residential area, requiring lighting in mid winter afternoons, is probably the most unacceptable suggestion in the whole of the North West this year, or any year.
Off the main topic but...you 'imply' that when 'this parish council gets hold of the local parks' we'll ban dogs and kids from outside the village etc....o.k. so you are orating rather than being strictly factual but; I've had the 'fun' of being the parish councilor 'looking after' the park for a good while now...I got the 'dogs must be on a lead' signs taken down and I got rid of the 'no cycling' signs ! We've also got new tennis courts and land drains under the footy area and new pieces of play equipment and more benches and more rubbish bins and just this week the 'community payback' people painted the young childrens' play equipment, etc.
Is this is the sort of thing you are worried about? Would you like to worry that the parish council will cancel christmas?
Some years ago MBC looked at the possibility of creating decking on the South St car park, and had two problems, cost and spaces. An extra floor does not double the spaces : only adds about 25 spaces overall for huge cost (and huge cost per space, and parking fees would have to have been astronomical to recover the investment).
You could buy the end terrace on South Street. Use the large end garden for parking and sell on the house. The cost would be minimal.
Actually, when MBC looked at it, the idea was to encourage a private partnership to invest capital and do just that, but the costs were exorbitant. If only they had known that the cost would be minimal, they might have carried on. But I am glad you are actively thinking of a parking solution, because any minute now you will come to the conclusion that moving the HL allotment holders to Lydiat Lane is by far the best option for the greater public benefit.
Actually, I am not aware of a parking problem. I have frequent visitors to my office on London Road and none have difficulty parking. They pay and display and stop for an hour and that's it.
Are you saying that MBC considered buying 40 South Street when it was last for sale and the costs were exorbitant or are you still writing about a multistorey car park? The side land there is good for a dozen cars or more. Did MBC approach the owner? How much would MBC pay per parking space to lease or buy?
Actually, I am not surprised that the parking situation on London Road is easier, the by-pass has greatly reduced the pressure on London Road.
MBC ceased to exist in 2009.
Cheshire East Council took over in 2009, and they are handing the allotments back to Alderley Edge Parish Council, who will provide allotments in accordance with the Legislation, and will make changes to the Heyes Lane site with the permission of the relevant Government Department.
Yes, it will solve part of this problem. The transfer of HL allotments to Lydiat Lane will allow the Parish Council to have greater control over the dangerous parking which takes place around the schools, especially at Brook Lane and Lynton Lane and the top end of Ryleys Lane which serves AECPS.
On a daily basis, by far the majority of illegal and dangerous parking is near our schools. I know there are other occasions in the centre of the village, but we are dealing with the persistent offenders, and they are a fraction of the school cars.
It is not given to every Parish Council to resolve so many issues at one time, and AEPC is resolved to take this opportunity.
I didn't say the school run people will use the HL car park!! I said the Parish Council will have greater control over the dangerous parking which takes place around schools - and they will.
The Festival Hall is the least used car park, because the facilities do not attract lots of visitors on a regular basis. The Parish Council are in the process of recruiting a manager for the Festival Hall and we expect to transform the FH into a multi-purpose hall which attracts both regular and casual users from the wider area.
Besides, the Parish Council have identified and will provide extra allotment capacity at Lydiat Lane and the Parish Council will consult on its wider plans, in a meeting in the Festival Hall. This exercise is about local people deciding local issues - but all local people, not just the people addicted to websites - like me. And certainly not just the "allotment 20".
Everyone who pays the Parish precept is entitled to a view, and anyone who does not pay the local tax is not entitled to a view on local facilities.
Welcome to Localism!
As for them looking untidy is it not the councils responsiblity to cut the hedges and keep the fences in good order.
If the Heyes Lane site becomes a car park what about the increased traffic, something needs to be done about the speed limit on heyes lane either traffic calming measures or a reduction to 20mph.
If the garage is moved and demolished this will mean an increase in cars in the area as there will be houses built on the old pub site and the garage site as most home owners have at least 2 cars we will see and increase in vehicles of over 20.
When I Chaired the Parish Plan Transport Working Group, respondents to the community survey indicated that they wanted more parking options both for themselves and for visitors. The Parish Council's proposal, whether you agree with it or not, is largely a response to the demands of a majority of its' electors therefore.
Personally, I do not believe that providing more parking spaces at the site proposed represents an effective long-term solution to the village's parking problems. I would be keen however, to see other transport related aspects of the Parish Plan (such as traffic calming, safer pedestrian areas and proper cycle routes) implemented in the near future.
The hidden agenda is surely that the site will be used for housing
It must be lonely in your world.
If Cllr Keegan ever manages to get rid of the Heyes Lane Allotments it will definitely be used as a Pay and Display car park, That's the whole point of all this trauma fo the allotment holders and their families. Many drivers will use the huge new car park and then walk the short way to shopping and restaurants in Alderley Edge and the whole village will prosper. That's what you told us Frank isn't it?
Turning HL allotments into a car park is pointless but once it became apparent that it was a white elephant along come the Parish Council with a new plan (development)
Its obvious that Frank is living in his fantasy world but what are the views of other parish councillors i cant believe they all support this ludicrous plan or do they?? I think we need to know.
Are you by any chance an allotment holder or just confused?
On 6th October you worried about where the money for the garage on the allotments was coming from?
I know you have your tongue firmly in your cheek, but to a large extent I agree with your comments about the farmers market and the festival hall. What would you think of a regular farmers market selling local produce in the precinct? People do crave the return of the fish merchant and the fruit and veg shop. What about occasional visits, given that the rents and business rates make it uneconomic to set up a full time business?
Elected representatives like Frank Keegan are just that, representatives of the peoples voice. I am sure Mr Keegan, you will listen to the views posted here and act accoding to the wishes of the people you represent and who have elected you to do just that.
I am sure there are many views out there but this snap shot here should give councillors a good idea of the prevailing opinion on this matter.
I have said lots of times in my comments that the voices that matter are the voices of the electorate. Forums like this are a snapshot of public opinion - just a snapshot.
I listen to the people I represent all the time, and they are telling me most clearly that they want to save the Trafford Road garage.
I have put seven years into keeping that garage open, and a lot of credit must go to the owners of the site for agreeing to maintain a facility in the village. If it comes to a decision between losing a facility like the garage or inconvenience to 20 allotment holders, then I am elected to keep the facility in the village.
If we lose our facilities in the village, then people have to go outside to have their cars serviced.
At the moment, people can drop their cars and walk into the village or walk home. If they have to go further afield, do they just stay there and wait or do they get a bus/train/taxi home before reversing their journey?
That is why the Parish Council will relocate the allotment holders, because we want to preserve our facilities.
My understanding is that these allotments have served the people of Alderley for over 100 years, they should be treated as a village treasure as they are one of the few green areas left in the centre of the village.
You allude to great leadership but the mark of a great leader is to realise when they are wrong and to rectify ones errors. Your views on concreting green space are from the last century but i give you credit for one very good idea. Create a new allotment area at Lydiat Lane and retain Heyes lane. More green space for the people of Alderley and you can take the credit.
Now whats it to be Lion or Lamb
Which is it?
Whilst I agree that you would be remiss to base your plans solely on the allotment holders' wishes, I think the views on this page represent a far bigger group than just them. I'm not an allotment holder, for example. But I completely oppose the idea of replacing the allotments with a carpark which will not be utilised because of the location.
Also, it does appear as if your mind is made up as to what the best way forward would be. Yet at the same time, you claim to represent the views of the residents of Alderley Edge. Does this mean you have carried out a formal consultation? If not, should you not wait to do that before you advocate a proposed plan? What if the majority of residents oppose your proposal?
The village needs a larger car park now and will do later with the new plans for the hall.
The garage in Trafford Road - it's not the only place you can get your car serviced in Alderley Edge is it ! we have two others in the centre, plus a Kwik Fit in Wilmslow and quite a few other garages less than 45 min walk away from Alderley Edge.
The allotments are an eyesore (yes, an eyesore) they need to be relocated.
Making the allotments a car park is ridiculous and I completely oppose the idea.
Mr Keegan has shifted his position with regards to the use (in black and white as well Frank!) and this only shows that there is another agenda at play or at least an emotional decision which has not been thought through.
Moving Alderley Auto’s (which I use and will be sad to see go) further away from the village onto a residential street is ludicrous. Likewise, extending an unused car park away from the village centre also verges on the comical.
How about doing a swap with the developer of the Alderley Auto’s site? The apparently much needed car park goes on the Alderley Auto’s site and the developer can build their houses on a similar size plot on Heyes Lane. The village centre gets a car park and Heyes lane remains a residential street.
It seems most folk who have written comments above would prefer to keep the 26 allotments on Heyes Lane rather than have a large car park possibly with a commercial development too.
If preparations have not yet started for next year, it would seem like a good time to start on Lydiat Lane and get off to a good start. I presume that any move in season would be disadvantageous to the growing.
1. Those who are against the proposal stop behaving like hysterical nimby's you are doing your cause no good. So far it has been insinuated that the council will create a travellers site, destroy the parks and are basically corrupt having done deals already for their own benefit. Before the council get accused of Devil worship and human sacrifice please calm down.
2. The allotments are a valuable resource for the village but the council has secured extra sites. The question is whether the Heyes Lane allotment is a valuable resource. So far it seems like the immediate residents objecting rather than allotment holders.
3. Please don't claim the majority are against this development even this whole site can't claim to speak for the whole village. I would like to see the facts before I make a decision.
4. If I had to take a guess the real issue it is local residents horrified that tatty field is going to be turned into grotty car park and they don't like change. For my part I would be also be concerned with an ugly view along Heyes Lane. It might be better for the naysayers to focus on making the car park a much more aesthetically acceptable area with the sacrifice of some of the proposed car parking spaces, but that would involve talking to people calmly.
I think this is the most sensible summing up of the situation, don't destroy the character of a really nice village for yet more B****** cars. So what if the allotments are a bit messy they are allotments not a bowling green. If you want car parks buy a house near Manchester Airport. life is about so much more than cars this is not LA. it's Alderley Edge!
What I want is less cars illegally parked and if that means a new car park then so be it, next I want the roads made safer for cyclist and that means slowing the traffic down and re-surfacing the roads so we don't have to keep weaving about to avoid pot holes,
6 people have commented 25 times in total, and those are largely (but not exclusively) allotment holders. I have responded 22 times. That leaves 25 posts for 20 people.
Not a great cross-section, of the village.
If the question is put to the village :
Would you vote for a DDA compliant health centre, a new revamped and multi purpose hall, and the opportunity to retain a repair garage in the village which has a client base of 1,500, and the opportunity to wipe out the waiting list for allotments?
The answer would be a resounding YES.
The new approach to the hall from Heyes Lane needs to retain a large part of the hedging, and needs to provide a "green" approach to the hall and not just a swathe of tarmac. The Parish Council wants to keep existing users of the hall, and add a different use which will sustain the hall - we would have two levels of fees, one for community users and one for premium users.
That is why we will keep the approach to the hall as looking very smart, rather than cheap and functional, because otherwise we will not attract the premium users.
I am not an allotment holder , just a resident and local business owner.
I don't have the same future telling capabilities as you do ; so why don't you actually ask the people of the village .... though I think the question needs a little be more thought. At the same time please ask about illegal parking and fragrant flouting of planning laws.....and maybe simple would you all like to be happier :-)
I have said that the steps are these:
o Parish Council, having taken the allotments back, asks the Secretary of State for Local Govt to confirm that we can implement our proposals (having provided alternatives)
o Serve notice on allotment holders at Heyes Lane - (Beech Close and CHL stay put)
o Have a consultation exercise which shows the proposals in detail, followed by an expression of the mood of the whole village.
o Run a similar consultation exercise re the proposals for the Festival Hall
o Implement proposals as agreed by whole village - or a majority of village.
By the way, would you address your concerns about planning to the Councillor for the area. Finlow Farm comes under Prestbury. Alternatively, contact uk who is the Northern Planning Manager, and voice your concerns.
I have just replied to Vin Sumner in a related point, but the first stage is that we need to petition the Minister (since we are providing 250% more allotments for greater public benefit, so we expect approval) It may delay, but will not prevent the intention to revamp the allotment site.
When we have approval we will start to consult on detailed plans. The Medical Centre is a completely separate exercise, but because it takes away the front entrance, we do have to look sharp about the detailed plans for the remainder, and a side entrance, facing Heyes Lane.
Any changes to both the Hall and the Allotments will be part of the Planning Process, subject to the same right to challenge which any application brings.
Perhaps we could run the Parish Consultation as part of the planning exercise.
The current surgery in George Street is not great, parking is a major issue. Personally, I came close of being late a few times just because I can't find parking and ended up parking at The Trafford Arms. With the stairs and no lift it can be issue to ones with difficulties.
With a new medical centre,100% of local residents would benefit. Or would you rather see in few years time the surgery being close down, only last week Kenmore was saved. So the threat is real. If we don't get a DDA compliant Medical Centre in Alderley it could be us.
If the Hall is under utilised and become too much of a burden to the village it would only ended up in the hands of developers.
I think people need to stop being negative and look at the positive possibilities.
For example, "Would developing the current allotments on Heyes Lane into a carpark offer the most effective solution for the existing parking problems in Alderley Edge?" I suspect then, the answer may not be a 'resounding YES'. I wish I could offer the most effective solution. I can't. But I don't believe this is it.
I should apologise, I have been posting some of my comments under the the name Stan Clarke as an experiment and I realise its confusing things. It is not hysterical to object to the site however so far, I have heard the insinuation that it could be turned into a travellers site and accusations that the Parish Council will ban non-local kids and dogs from parks so quite clearly the discussion is getting over-heated. Its not helped by those assuming a moral high ground regarding the allotments reassignment that they care for the environment and the others don't (the whole scheme seems to tick a lot of environmental boxes) and I object to their assumption that the majority are against this development (no-ones knows). You have important points to make and add to the debate which are better made and discussed without the emotion and hyperbole. Broadly I am in favour of what I have heard so far for the development but would always try to keep open mind.
Your point about the council's "selling" of the scheme is interesting though. Once I thought about the scheme then as already pointed out it gives
-. Extra allotments - who could argue with that - very environmental;
- Extra parking for the village;
- A New Medical Centre - better and bigger facilities for a growing and more elderly village;
- Car parking for local commuters to encourage less car travel;
- The saving of an established local business;
- A potentially improved view of the allotment site
and most importantly for me making the Festival Hall a viable entity (I presume the rentals would cover the upkeep)
I guess this is where I differ from the naysayers because all in all it sounds like a great scheme. Sure its complex but starting from the point where we have an unviable Festival Hall in need of a refurbishment I can see how the scheme has probably grown to meet the demands of all the potential partners in order to make it work. And so rather that dismiss the scheme out of hand it would be better surely to push for your modifications e.g. get electric refueling points or whatever? - its a negotiation and worth a try to get away from the someone wins and someone else loses scenario.
I empaphise with the allotments holders and can't see the requirement to move them given the intended re-use.
Whilst illegal parking continues to be a problem on the lane, hopefully soon to be resolved, the "increased" flow of traffic will not assist in this. As the site is 250% bigger are we going to have 65 allotments (rumoured), why not like for like and so not significantly increase traffic.
Additionaly the winding, and so blind, single "track" to the AESG field does not allow suitable access, it will likely require widening to allow opposing traffic to flow, resurfacing and hard standing putting in on the AESG field. Will the illegal parkers just drift down there or will there be a locked barrier? Btw the issue of parking is not really the lack of but more that people just wont pay coupled with very limited [but still appreciated] enforcement!
My main concern is that it begins to set a precedent for the change of use of "green belt" land (if indeed that is its classification). Before we know what's happened the AESG and farmers fields south of netherfields, west of congleton road will all be developed. Is this a narrow wedge to drive that option open? Is that why AESG will allow reuse so they can hold out for the bigger dividend?
How many cars are in Britain? How many electric cars? What is the price an electric charger and how does the cost recovery work?
If you provide the info then the PC will consider putting some points in the new Heyes Lane environmentally friendly car park.
ps, The views of the village were ascertained in the independently run Parish Plan survey, where the majority were in favour of more parking solutions both for themselves and for their friends. ( see Craig Browne's post of 10 Oct).
The AESG playing fields are only suitable for allotments, in planning policy terms. The fields beside them are not able to be developed, except for agricultural use. The meeting re residents parking which is coming up, will hopefully confirm that beyond the end of Lydiat Lane, (ie just before Beech Close) will be for residents only. The AESG field is locked now and will continue to be locked as allotments; the access will be fine without the need to widen it.
It would also seem the wrong way round to serve notice on the allotment holders before any consultation. Let’s see the proposed plans for both the Heyes Lane allotments and the Festival Hall before anyone gets served notice so as a village we can democratically agree or disagree.
I also think as a community it’s great that we have alderleyedge.com providing us access to local news and more importantly comments from councillors and constituents. Is this 21st century local politics?
There will be hard standing provided, so that the site is self contained and not a nuisance to the residents of Netherfields.
AEPC has always led in consultations; some years ago there was the march through the village to highlight the need for the by-pass. Then, when the detail of the by-pass was changed, the Parish Council convened the meeting which was attended by 600/700. Then we convened meeting to set up the Parish Plan process.
The biggest consultation is called an election, and every point of view can be represented there. AEPC was re-elected unopposed in May 2011, so we are entitled to act on that endorsement because no one felt strongly enough about any position to challenge us.
Having been endorsed, it is the Parish Council's role to administer the affairs of the village without having to take every decision in a public meeting.
The Parish Council will act on the mandate it received in May and will petition the Minister to relocate the existing allotments.
In major matters, such as the expenditure on an upgraded Festival Hall, the PC will consult. There will be an exhibition of plans for the future of the village and a public meeting to give residents the opportunity to understand and comment on the proposals.
Craig Browne has already highlighted the fact that the Parish Plan process, which was quite an extensive independent consultation, concluded that the villagers wanted more parking options. Now that we are acting, we will comply with the legislation, but we do not have to stop and re-run the Parish Plan exercise. We are not in a "best of three" situation: that means we take the lead and act. We will comply with the legislation, but we will not stop and re-run the Parish Plan exercise.
When were the Council going to notify residents and potential buyers. I reckon that the Council is in breach of its own rules by not disclosing its proposals. The residents of the area do not want more traffic or the views altered. The residents who back onto the fields bought their properties because of the views and paid handsomely for this privilege.
Today, I was approached by an allotment holder who informed me that the allotment holders Do not want to be relocated. They have spent time money and energy getting their allotments in the condition that they want. A number of the holders are elderly and cannot relocate and restart. The excellent garage which has served the residents of A Edge should be protected but not at the expense of the allotment holders.
The car park is under-used so why all of a sudden will shoppers start using the new extended car park. It will turn into a paradise for travellers. After a short time and many complaints from residents then the glorious Council will say the way to stop the travellers is to agree housing.
Councillor Keegan should listen to the public and stop this ridiculous scheme. If he continues then a high profile public petition will follow and that will involve the Council in huge public expense fighting a rearguard action.
Your Solicitor will have done a Search and told you that there were playing fields behind Netherfields, capable of being used for any sporting activity such as Rugby, Football or Hockey. Or indeed, all three.
Someone in the Allotments Society has nightmares about travellers; in the local area we have car parks in Alderley and in Wilmslow. Travellers have never used revenue generating car parks in our local area.
The solicitor correctly advised us about the playing fields but not potential allotments or car parking for the allotments. The Council is in my opinion obliged to tell us about a major change which it did not do. Why not?
To ask the current allotment holders to start from scratch is too much particularly for the elderly.
The A Edge allotments holders have tended with loving care "their" plots over a number of years.
Most of the comments on this site oppose the proposed scheme. It affects A Edge residents, who paid top prices for their properties. We would not welcome additional traffic 7 days a week and an additional car park in a playing field or a residential area.
If the local council does not currently represent its voters' views, then we need new councillors - despite having previously served with distinction for many years. We are very much aware of all the good works such as the bypass.
Walk down to the playing fields in Chorley Hall Lane when there is a match, and then you will see what traffic near a sports field is like.
The Allotment holders on Lydiat Lane will mainly walk, but if you keep a census of usage on Heyes Lane, you will find the place empty most days. That will not change very much. The local council is reflecting the views of constituents, and in part that was reflected in the fact that the Parish Council was unopposed in May 2011.
I have been doing a survey around the village to see how many car spaces there are at various times of the day. On most days, I have noted at least 24 car spaces on the Festival Hall car park, and varying from 14 to 34 in the supermarket car park and from 5 to 15 in the underground car park by the supermarket. Around the village on 12th October between 10.00 a.m. and 10.45 a.m., there were 53 car spaces; this included the car parks I have already mentioned and the various side streets. On the same day, between 2.45 p.m. and 3.15 p.m., there were 99 spaces; on 13th October, between 11.45 a.m. and 12.15 p.m., there were 72 spaces; on 18th October, between 2.15 p.m. and 2.45 p.m., there were 64 spaces; on 19th October, between l.45 p.m. and 2.15 p.m., there were 82 spaces and on 20th October, between 9.45 a.m. and 10 15 a.m., there were 85 spaces. From these results, I do not see why we need another car park. Does anybody walk any more or use public transport?
Another change that has happened recently is that dogs are now allowed in the Playing Fields (for some reason it now seems to be called The Park) off their leads. One day I saw a dog leaping about on the bowling green and, on another occasion, I saw two dogs roaming around the young children's area. I do not agree with this change.
Well, I am off to see a lady of 91 years in the morning and shall enjoy walking to her house along by the allotments on Heyes Lane in order to get to my destination. It will not be such a pleasant walk if the area becomes a car park.
BTW Cllr Keegan - if you concur that the parking situation has actually eased on London Road, since the by-pass opened, why then do we need more of it further away from the shops to supplement parking spaces at the Festival Hall that are little used?
I love the idea that Alderley Edge shopping provides a realistic alternative to the Trafford Centre - you gotta be jokin' right? Surely, other than the plethora of restaurants and beauty salons, there is no other shopping experience along London Road that could take you more than an hour. Perhaps I am missing something - or walking too quickly!
If you read what I replied to, someone said we were being turned into an out of town shopping experience. I replied "eat your heart out, Trafford Centre". I think most people would regard that as not serious. However, I think London Road has become a more attractive place to be in the last few years and certainly in the last few months with the new sweet shoppe and the galleries.
Dogs shouldn't be able to enter the young childrens' play area... after the last vandalism of its gate, the repaired gate is a tad 'loose' and so dogs can push it open and get in; I have now emailed the parks' Officer at Cheshire East to ask for the gate to be 'tightened'.
Dogs on or off a lead? No happy medium I guess. Most dog owners prefer to let their dog roam and in the last year or so I've only fielded 1 complaint about that.
The park is the 'property' of Cheshire East; they may hand it over to the Parish Council at some future date and then we'll consult with the parishoners about the rules for the park.
I keep making this point but as far as I can see the only suggestion seems to be overspill for commuters at the station?
This whole scheme strikes me as a huge expense, upheaval and disruption for the sake of a box-ticking exercise!
My recollection is of Robert Redford sitting in a coffee shop, talking to his friend and explaining why the two characters grew apart. The friend thought they were perfect together, but Redford refers to the Streisand character as locked in a time warp and "nutty as a fruitcake".
I remember coming out of the cinema, feeling sad for Streisand, but the majority opinion of my friends who have seen the film is that people cannot stay locked in the past.
Nice reply. If you go to the Parish Council for their blessing and certainly if you go to a Whitehall Ministry you will need more than a cute email. Plans, proposals, analysis all cost money to prepare. Who is going to pay?
The Parish Council will be OK. The DCLG is promoting Localism and the Parish proposal :
a) provides a much larger alternative, within easy walking distance of the village
b) allows the Parish to provide better facilities for the village
c) recognises the present and future parking needs of the Festival Hall
d) will facilitate an improvement in present anti-social parking caused by the school traffic
Quite frankly, this proposal meets the Allotments Act legislation and is a fantastic advert for place shaping and localism. I would not be surprised if DCLG use our scheme to promote the merits of Localism.
You are right to think that money is not finite, which is why the Parish would prefer the co-operation of the HL Allotment holders, rather than spend our resources in a tussle we will win.
This is an ideal time to recognise that the next growing season needs to be prepared in a different venue.
Sweets the economic engine of alderley edge wow .... such vision.
I do not know when to take you seriously. Are you saying that you expect both the Parish Council and the Department for Communities and Local Government will take your statements at face value? Just taking your first statement that: a) (the proposal) provides a much larger alternative, within easy walking distance of the village, how can anyone believe that this is true unless (1) plans are produced that show the alternative is much larger and by how much and (2) the distance from the village is easy walking distance and how far this is?
Many times in this thread people have made the observation that the proposed carpark WILL NOT resolve existing parking issues in Alderley Edge. Not for shoppers visiting the village, nor for errant parents, ignoring parking restrictions as they drop off and pick up their children This is evidenced by the fact that the Festival Hall carpark is already consistently under-utilised. I have noted that while you are regular and dogged in your reposts to various other comments, you have continuously ignored this one stark fact that will not go away. Why do you refuse to address this central key fact that has been repeatedly raised? From my own perspective, it does nothing to reassure me about your true agenda.
The field at Lydiat Lane is 250% bigger than the HL site. The Act says it has to be within easy walking distance and Lydiat Lane is within easy walking distance!
Parking in the village is not a "central key fact". The "central key fact" and the only one which matters, is that the Parish Council have voted to take the allotments back from Cheshire East and administer them and to petition the DCLG to relocate them to a much bigger site.
The fact that parking issues around the village will also be addressed is a welcome bonus, but whatever happens to parking, we expect DCLG to give permission for the relocation.
The by-product will be to create another car park which will be largely useless...
What fabulous use of money in these cash-strapped times...
Well done to the Parish Council - really joined-up thinking there!!!
Thank you for recognising the joined up thinking! In the short term, extra parking will be available for the revamped Festival Hall, but also, if the Parade/Precinct ever gets developed, the Parish Council can protect car parking for the village.
The whole site, including the new Medical Centre, will also be an example of the beneficial use of public resources - in times of financial hardship. The Medical Centre will provide modern, DDA compliant facilities, and the NHS will pay no more money.
The revamped hall will protect the community use of the hall at local prices, and attract an outside level of business which will be at premium prices and which will subsidise the community use of the hall.
As you say, really joined up thinking, and oh, I nearly forgot, we will wipe out the waiting list for allotments at the same time.
I would like to know when you are going to take note of the comments
being made, or should I say vociferous arguments being put forward by
your electorate.
It is the opinion of both the allotment holders and the residents of
Alderley Edge that always matter and not one man's dream. Please don't
continue with this ego driven campaign to build this grand plan
vision. The majority either do not want this to proceed, or simply do
not have an opinion either way. Hardly a mandate to go full steam
ahead. Build it when you have the backing of the people. Please
explain to the masses where this notion of 'for the greater good' is
coming from? Who are the greater good and how have you polled opinion
on this matter? I note your comments stating that you are acting on
mandate, but that is simply not good enough. I ask you to take this to
public meeting as the constituents will demand it. Tony Blair was elected and chose the war on Iraq - we all know what the people thought about that !!!
This cannot proceed for the following reasons:
The majority of the time the car parks are not full in Alderley Edge
and your argument for building more car parks is shere nonsense. Why
not increase your signage and tell people where these car parks are located.
Then you may fill them.
The allotment holders do not want to move from land they have occupied
for many many years and why should they?
The residents of Netherfields, Beech Cottages, Congleton Road, Lydiat
Lane, Chorley Hall Lane etc...etc...do not want the relocation of
allotments to the AESG site. Are you prepared to ask their opinion on
the matter? As yet they have not even been notified of such intention
!!! Why not? Does their opinion not concern you?
You point out that the field can currently be used for sporting activities.
The residents have never objected to this and indeed the field has
been used over the years for exactly that purpose. Instead of a steady
flow of traffic on a daily basis that will go in and out of the
proposed allotments the residents have enjoyed the odd school training session, hardly comparable. Furthermore I doubt the school kids will be driving vehicles like the
allotment holders. This car park, is this not going to be an eyesore
for residents? Are you even bothered?
Do you own an allotment Mr Keegan? I'm quite sure you don't but please
feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Often allotments are viewed
like people's back gardens. A place of tranquility, life, opportunity,
sentiment, history, memories. Would you mind if someone uprooted your
back garden and relocated it over half a mile away. Would you not object?
If you were one of the residents affected would you not object if
someone decided to take away beautiful rolling fields from the back of
your house like you will be doing for the residents of Congleton Road,
Beech Cottages and Netherfields. These people will be staring at an
unsightly collection of allotments, sheds, green houses, CARS, Car park etc...etc....etc.....
Your objective comments wouldn't go a miss !!!
1. Is it the case that in order to have the GP surgery moved to the Festival Hall that the entire allotment land (or indeed a majority of it) has to be available for car parking? Is it a condition for the move of the medical centre?
2. - I have not seen many tweets (and I'm sorry if I missed them) from local businesses in favour of the new car park. Given that this seems one of the major arguments in favour of turning the allotment land into car park, I would like to see a few more local businesses in favour of this.
I have to agree that I really can't see any reason why a car park in Heyes Lane will stop irresponsible "school" traffic and the car park is too far away from the shops to be much of a lure to a larger shopping population or indeed an aging one.
I do agree on the other hand that on occasions parking can be a problem and it is difficult for people to find somewhere to park that is convenient for a bit of quick shopping business,, but that this problem has been alleviated a bit by the opening of the by-pass.
I think perhaps it will calm the fears of many if the whole project is approached in a different order - get the medical centre moved and the festival hall revamped and then re-appraise the parking need. It just all seems to be a little back to front to me.
Having said all this, nonetheless I do appreciate the valiant efforts of all Parish Councillors who seem to have a pretty thankless task in trying to do what's best for the village as a whole and who are never going to please all the people all the time!
If the allotment switch to car parking is a prerequisite to moving the medical centre then say so. Then we all know what its about and we can weigh up the pro's and con's. At present there seems to be no logical reason why the allotments have to be concreted over - inevitably people smell a rat.
- The exisiting allotment holders
- The people on the existing allotment waiting list who would benefit from increased allotment availability
- The residents immediately adjacent to the existing allotment plot
- The residents who would be directly affected by the re-siting of the the plots
- The medical centre
- Users of the Festival Hall
- Businesses (specifically retail) in the town centre
It might be useful to call a meeting that engaged all of these stakeholders to sound out the strength of opinion either way and then to take a decision - even if the outcome will not be palatable to some of the people concerned.
To be honest, I really worry about the localism agenda - at least when there was local authority decision making, it may have been slow and cumbersome, but it was democratic. I concur with others here - I don't actually see what is the key driver of this change other than one person's vision for the village.
Available parking spaces
Main Village 0 Festival Hall 40
Even with the village chokka people still don't want to use parking in the vicinity of the Festival Hall. Building a further 100 spaces won't change that.
The Festival Hall is a burden on council tax payers. Quaint as it is, even if it were improved, its always going to be a marginal operation, so why not demolish what remains after the medical centre moves in and make the parking spaces that the Parish Councils desires out of a brownfield site rather than concreting over green space?
Come to think of it didn't the much heralded Parish Plan (which for some reason is no longer available as a download) talk about protecting our green space?
Which will allow more flexibility as to where new houses can be built.
Like over the top of allotments.
For example.
a hospital - gone
a pub - gone
allotments - under threat
a newsagents - gone
an auction room - gone
and Granthams - thankfully still here!
I remember a Post Office - long gone.
It seems the only point to consider is "will this car park benefit the locals of Alderley?" I think the answer is highly unlikely.
I live at the far end of the village,1 mile walk away, which I do often. Not that many people do this on a regular basis most drive these days.
Who are the locals who are going to drive to the Heyes Lane car park then walk the quarter of a mile to the shops and lug all their shopping back to the car and pay for the privilege of doing so? It's not in human nature!
The car park will only benefit people commuting to Alderley.Plus the income from parking will be far greater than allotments rents!
One thing no-one seems to have looked at is the Festival Hall and the site it is on.
When my mother was young it was a picture house, in my youth it was a dance hall and fully used. It seems most of the goings on there these days take place at the rear and in the front section. It's a large site - knock it down and build a medical centre, function rooms and offices!
I'm sure our local building magnate could come up with some good plans and backing if asked.
Rex Davenport who at the time was the Secrretary of the Allotment society fought the battle against this piece of land being used for the relocation of the Doctors Surgery.
It seems that history is repeating itself.again...........
How ridiculous can this be that the local council can then give consent to develop the allotments but retain a bowling green on a new development?
Only in Alderley Edge!
All I could think was what a farce when you want to destroy the allotments how hypocritical. Truly sickening.
The allotments have been on the councils radar for the medical centre for over 20 years!
I think they are hoping that the residents of Alderley Edge today do not want to get their hands dirty and will be happy with a change of use!
They made no provision in 1992 when the cottage hospital closed and was sold off for private development, !
Instead a piece of land which was left to the Alderley Edge residents in 1917 is earmarked for their plans!
AEPC are nothing more than magpies! What will be next!
Back when the cottage hospital was demolished our local building magnate offered to build a state of the art medical centre as part of the plans for the cottage lawns site.
You can guess what happened to that wonderful idea!!
Turned down-built extra flats.
Such was the need for a medical centre!! eh.