Allotment holders stand their ground

hmm im sure cllrs Williamson and keegan live in a different alderley edge than the rest of us and could I ask once again if either have to declare an interest in the jone's empire?

This allotment is important green space in the village. The former Royal Oak bowling green has recently been lost, despite its retention being part of original planning permission.

Apart from loss of protected green space, the fact is the extra car parking space is Not needed. There's always been plenty of room for parking at the festival hall, as it's too far out of the village for most visitors to park. Let's remember that medical patients come to their appointments and then drive away again... so spaces will rotate all day (a point apparantly missed by councilors who appear to think patients will stay all day...

Let's not forget the legal covenant protecting the allotments, and the recent transfer from cheshire east with special note that allotments must remain allotments. How can this just be ignored ?

Finally, no-one can oppose a new medical centre. But the allotments are not needed for this to be built...

The allotment holders are doing a good job themselves, but need much wider village support. I suggest they properly organise a petition, standing outside waitrose and costa to gather '000s residents support...

"Big Yellow Taxi" - Joni Mitchell

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot SPOT
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
‘Til it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
Then they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see 'em
Don't it always seem to go,
That you don't know what you've got
‘Til it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

I agree with Neil, is this really necessary? I've not heard the business case for more parking; over and above what already exists within the Festival Hall car park. Maybe i've missed this and someone can of authority can clarify or point me in the right direction for the evidence?

Also, surely it would be better to suck it and see (hate this phrase, apologies) before ripping out a lovely and fairly unique green space, only to find it's not needed. If it is found to be vital then surely it can be looked at again at that point! Once it's gone, it's gone!

Heyes Lane has been an Allotment site since 1952 - the earliest Map which is sealed in the County Archive at Chester. [An earlier map dated 1947, shows the Heyes Lane site as Royal Oak land]

Heyes Lane has been a Statutory site since 1973 - the Urban District Council sealed that in the County Archive just before Local Government Reorganisation in 1974.

The choice which will be put to DCLG very shortly, is either to allow the site at Heyes Lane to be transferred to Lydiat Lane as a Statutory site, or not. If the answer is NOT, then the Parish Council will have to decide whether it closes the Festival Hall as an unviable unit, or upgrades the Festival Hall and retains the whole car park. That would mean that the Parish Council might have to abandon the Medical Centre project.

Currently a charge to the Council Tax Payer, via the precept, the Festival Hall needs to be upgraded and attract a different range of high value lettings, without losing the important community benefit of being a reasonably priced hall for social contact. Unless it has a car park, the Festival Hall will not attract high value lettings.

Two traders have expressed concerns about the issue of parking in Alderley Edge this week, commenting on how the problems of parking are effecting their businesses. To say there is no need for additional parking in the village does not reflect that facts.

Mike Williamson
Chairman, AEPC

Heyes Lane allotment site has been in use as allotments since 1917, not 1952 as Cllr Williamson states. The plans for the medical centre were approved without any reference to needing the Heyes Lane site, and any failure to go ahead with those would have nothing to do with what happens to the allotments.

At present it is uncertain what will happen to the allotment holders after 28 May 2014. The Parish Council has asserted it will move them to a site at Lydiat Lane. However this is not
yet approved as a suitable alternative site. An application must be made to the Secretary of State to change the use of Heyes Lane, and as it is a statutory allotment, the alternative must also be a statutory site (ie a permanent site). This process has not been started yet, and seeing how slowly the wheels of government, local and national, turn it could be some time before the Parish Council would be in a position to effect a move, assuming it gets over all the hurdles.
In addition the Parish Council would need to prepare any new site for use as allotments. As far as I am aware no plan has been formed for this nor is there a budget allocation for it.

The Parish Council has announced that it wants to use the Heyes Lane site as a car park, to build a road across it as a new approach to the Festival Hall and to use it as a builder's compound. To my knowledge no application has been made for this change of use, approval for which is not guaranteed, and which in itself will take time.

Meanwhile we are in the middle of the growing season, and the allotment holders continue to work their plots.

All we hear from the PC is that the allotment society is holding up the redevelopment of the hall and medical centre. It's quite clear that the poor project management of the project by the PC is to blame for this and any delay in the start of building.

The PC cannot get some of the basic facts correct for example stating that the 3 sites in the village are temporary not statutory.

Then we are given 3 months notice to quit at the start of the growing season because now a building compound is suddenly required by the PC but not the builders.

Planning permission has not been granted for the change in land use at Heyes lane and Lydiate lane is not even vaguely ready for anyone to use and has undisclosed vehicle access issues.

All things this should have been sorted out or thought about at least 3 years ago.

The latest issue is that the car park at festival hall recently mysteriously changed from pay and display to permit holders only. So that was the PC actually reducing car parking spaces to the public!

So at last nights PC AGM there two at least 2 missing councillors, 1 was late and 1 stormed out and a motion was proposed seconded and voted on that PC was that "this meeting has no confidence in the parish councils stewardship of public assets".

We do still need to resolve the parking issues in the village but with out the loss of green spaces.

Judy Tomlinson,

Cllr Williamson is quite correct in what he said. The County Archive at Chester shows the Maps of Wilmslow and Alderley Edge MAP 9, I think.

The oldest map in the file is 1947, and the land is marked as Royal Oak land. The first map which is sealed and dated is 1952, and the land is marked as O/A - which means allotment land on a designated open space.

The 1973 Map 9, shows the land as O/SA which is Statutory Allotment on a designated open space.

The Urban District Council transferred the Allotments to Macclesfield Borough Council as Statutory Alloments, and THAT was the first time they were so designated.

I have paid for two copies of Maps A1 size, of the 1952 and the 1973 Maps, which were both sealed and dated, and when they arrive, within the next week, they will be available within the Parish Council Offices to public view - by appointment with the Clerk.

The Parish Council has stated, officially, that the land at Lydiat Lane will be a Statutory Allotment site, and Dave Morris, North West Allotments, came to a Parish Council meeting, and at the end he said how pleased that we were swapping into a new site which would be Statutory. So, though he has retired, he will affirm that we always intended it to be Statutory.

Fenton,

Please think before you write.

Last night’s meeting was not a Parish Council meeting; it was a Parish Meeting, which means there is no regular agenda and any resident in the village can come along and speak about any topic. Strictly speaking, Parish Councillors are not obliged to attend a Parish meeting, save the Chairman who delivers his report of the last year.

In a meeting which was 80% Allotment society, you got an 80% vote for your motion, which was the sort of flawed thinking we have come to expect from your Society.

In our defence of our stewardship, we would argue that there is probably no other parish Council in Britain which has taken ownership of a Hall for £1, and received a £300,000 Capital Dowry, plus a £15,000 revenue dowry for a period of 10 years (i.e. a total of £450,000); and then, not content with that, we are providing a valuable public service in replacing a medical facility which would have been closed without our intervention.

And, not only that, we will pay off the mortgage in around 18 years, and IT WILL NOT HAVE COST THE TAXPAYER A PENNY PIECE.

And of course from year 19, or thereabouts, the Parish Taxpayer will receive annual revenue equal to about £250,000.

Just what would it take for you to have confidence in our stewardship?

I think the PC are being very short sighted re. the so called parking problem in Alderley. If they were to create this so called green car park there is no way they can maximise the space available,as you would with a standard car park.We have heard absolutely nothing off the PC regarding the car park ie,proposed plans, number of space etc.

Another point of interest, the field at the rear of Lydiat lane is 3 times the size of the Heyes Lane site.It doesn't take a genius to work out that in the long term that would deffo solve the parking problem for years to come.

The PC have added to the parking problem by renting out the Festival hall car park to local firms leaving a few spaces for the residents of Alderley to whom the Hall belongs,note it doesn't belong to the PC.

As for banging on about the Doctors they have never stated they want any more parking than is already there.

So if this small green inadequate car park is built, which piece of land will be next??

As a trader in the village I frequently receive comments and complaints from customers who struggle to find a car parking space to enable them to spend time in the village. Some customers have said they will not return to Alderley Edge as it is simply too frustrating to find parking. Indeed I have heard that my fellow traders have even had calls from customers saying they will not be visiting their shop as they cannot park anywhere.

The village has grown in recent years with a good variety of places to eat, interesting independent shops and a soon to be bigger Waitrose, which will no doubt be a very welcome facility as well as creating more jobs and thus adding to the local economy.

In order for businesses to survive and as such continue to contribute to and serve the community it is essential that every effort is made to encourage people to visit the village. Therefore from a trader's point of view more parking is desperately needed.

Judy of course it's difficult to park in the village - since Clifton Street and others became 'residents parking only between 8am and 8pm'. Is it paranoia - or is it the Parish Council trying to make parking awkward to make it an issue?

It seemed to work pretty well before this AEPC change, in my view.

Frank

At least I turn up on time and anyone can come to the AGM so perhaps there is no call for an extra car park as surely those who wanted one would have come and argued their case.

That's democracy for you people turn up and vote

According to the statement above from Cllr Williamson, "the actions of Alderley Edge Parish Council are motivated by a DESIRE to improve facilities and conditions for the RESIDENTS of the Village as a whole and we will continue to do so." Yet the general thoughts and views of the RESIDENTS and ALLOTMENT holders appear to be secondary to the DESIRE to see a piece of green belt allotment land turned into a piece of black tarmac that will NOT BE USED by the public. The parish council master plan therefore has remained unchanged, get control of the land, turn it into a car-park nobody will use and then turn around and say it hasn't worked because nobody uses it, oh by the way we now need to sell it off to a developer (wonder who that will be any guesses?)

If the land that these plots stand on was originally bought for the purpose of supplying allotments then they may have the protection defined in the Small Holdings and Allotments Act 1908 This act states that Statutory Allotment land can only be sold if the land is not needed for the purpose of allotments, or that some more suitable land is available.
It doesn’t matter what the PC or the government and its departments may want to do with the land they cannot run roughshod over the law.
From reading this article it would appear that this allotment may be in a similar situation to an allotment in Watford called Farm Terrace.
Farm Terrace are taking their issue to judicial review.
The outcome of this court case may well set a criteria that applies to this allotment.
To find out more about the Farm Terrace situation follow twitter account @SaveFarmTerrace or visit
http://savefarmterrace.wix.com/savefarmterrace
Even if these allotments are lost, if they are statutory allotments the law states that all the money from the sale of them should be used for providing other allotments and recreational facilities so a value for the land with planning permission for a car park should be obtained.

The people of Alderley Edge won't forget about this when it comes around to AEPC and Cheshire East council elections. I can't wait until we rid of the old cabal. Certain Cllrs have run this village for their own interests for too long.

Fenton

Democracy is not when 10 allotment holders turn up. Democracy is when 1,500 people exercise their right to vote and 75% of them vote for the candidate who will deliver real benefits to the Ward.

Actually, another definition of democracy is to allow your members a say in what is going on. Or Democracy would be in giving the Parish Council some information re the Allotment holders. The land is public land, paid for by taxpayers, and yet you refuse to give any information to the elected owners of the allotments. Your Society gets fat on the back of money you keep back from allotment rents, and yet you provide no proof of the basis for your retention of monies. There will an accounting at some point.

The amount of revenue or monitory gains made by a PC is no way to measure overall success, or to prove a point in what is being discussed in this thread.
The same argument was put forward regarding parking permits for the town hall, to generate revenue for the car park potholes.

I am afraid cementing over any green space does cost the residents of AE. I have no problem paying for my council tax and contributing to the upkeep of the village, I want that money to be spent on the upkeep and preservation of my local area and the content of my fellow residents.

I saw a phrase on a planning application, describing a part of AE as 'Sylvan low density'. I'm pretty much certain that isn't the part I live in, carparking over an allotment will surely be the nail in the coffin!

Parking issues arise in Alderley Edge because we've let the private schools continue to operate without car parks. The two biggest parking offenders in the village are the parents and staff of the girls school and the Ryleys. The primary school has a car park and most parents walk their children to the school because they ACTUALLY live in the village.

It should those two schools who should be paying for the new car park - and it should be their field which gets the tarmac treatment - not the village allotments. If its too far away, then tough - they can operate a park and ride system. But under the perverse logic of the AEPC - we're paying the girl's school to use their land!

Well said James, the field in front of the old Horseshoe Farm would make a good car park for the girls school, then they would only have to walk 250 yards, most could manage that !

I find Mike Williamson comments quite threatening...

quote: "If the answer is NOT, then the Parish Council will have to decide whether it closes the Festival Hall as an unviable unit, or upgrades the Festival Hall and retains the whole car park. That would mean that the Parish Council might have to abandon the Medical Centre project."

The medical centre and the allotment 'car park' are unrelated. Most people think the extra car space un-necessary. A sensible suggestion has been made to create the medical centre and then at a later date see if extra car parking may be helpful. There's plenty of space for medical centre visitors in the existing car park, and there's better places to provide a new village car park (see many of the comments above)

Yet Mike threatens to Close the festival hall and abandon the medical centre if the allotments are not paved over ! Nonsense.

The allotment holders must ensure their petition, with '00s or '000s of names is put in front of the dclg at same time as any parish council application. In that case, change of use will certainly be refused.

No matter how many times the members of AEPC say it, no matter how many sentences they type in capitals, I think very few people really believe that there is no agenda involved here.

Personally I have always felt that the "green car park" would be constructed on the allotments, would not be used and then would be sold off to a developer (which one? not difficult to guess).

I've yet to see any convincing argument to the contrary - the medical centre development was never linked to the allotments as far as I've seen, except by certain parish councillors.

Also I totally agree that AESG and The Ryleys should provide adequate parking for their own needs and that would assist greatly with the gridlock in the village...

1) I was an absent councillor at the meeting. My aged (96) mama-in-law lives with us and there was a problem that I had to help with. Sorry.

2) the field in front of the ex-Horseshoe Farm has, I believe, an 'agricultural use only' thing on it.

Now then Frank,
You've obviously never asked C.E.C.of which you are a member,what the monies retained from the rents by the society are used for.
Seems like another bit of dirt digging to divert attention away from your pet project.
C.E.C.did not spend on the plots,where did the rents go.
The monies retained by the society to manage the plots is used for the upkeep of the sites eg.purchase of stone for the tracks,mowers,strimmers,fuel etc.not forgetting the insurance policies required.If i've left anything out please let Frank know.Sorry one very important bit-the 3 site managers who deal with all types of problems etc that are put their way.
Once you take over,as is your want and you have to fund all of this out of rents that will not cover the costs and cannot legally be raised beyond a small amount each year.Methinks that you will realise what free/voluntary help the society provides is worth.

Hi Duncan,
Bit of a devil these ties aren't they eh!!
Funny thing is Heyes Lane has 2 ties on it called covenants.
I think you'll find the one on the field opposite Horseshoe farm is a lot easier to remove,that is if AEPC can divert their attention away from you know where!!

Build the medical centre - lets see if a car park is really needed - and if there is a problem I'm sure we could come to a temporary agreement with the Catholic church across the road from the Festival Hall to use their parking whilst we build a car park.

Yes that's a great idea, and then if there was a funeral we could hold that in the street!

Terry,

It is quite simple. Cheshire East, of which I am a member, has not been able to provide AEPC with any useful info. We have a copy of the Tenancy Agreement, but detail of each site and each plot is retained by AEAGS and they refuse to communicate with our clerk about the detail. The rents from Heyes Lane were £260 to the Parish Council this last year, which is after AEAGS retains a 30% management fee. The water bill, payable by the Parish Council, was £260. As far as I recall, the rate of payment has not changed since 1976, but I need to check that. I calculate that by the Tenancy for Heyes Lane quotes .12p and some 3,000 sq mtrs, which would be £360 gross, less a 30% deduction, leaves £260. I have slightly rounded those off, but you get the drift. Not many hobbies have been pegged in cost for 40 years.

I know there are 26 people on Heyes Lane, so it is an average of £10 a head.
Why should the detail be withheld from the Parish Council? I know the main Councils have not spent much money on sites, but we did put £3,000 in the budget this year for Beech Road to address the drainage issues down there. I don’t know what the gross fees are from Beech Road, but we are never going to get that money back. The point is we are happy to sort out what has been a drainage issue for some time. I remember MBC spent money on Chorley Hall back in the early 2000’s, and it was a fair bit.

The sort of money we have spent, even at irregular intervals, is not the sort of money which we will ever get back or the sort of money which could have been found from AEAGS resources.

And there is lots of irrational comment on here about the Parish Council agenda (but not from you!) but if you look at the formal motions which were debated in Council, and adopted, our preferred option was to retain the existing arrangements on Chorley Hall Lane and Beech Road. You know as well as I do that we could have closed down the tenancies of people who came from outside the village, because they should go and ask their own local Council for Allotments. We could have asked people with multiple allotments to revert to only one allotment. These changes would have meant that we could have allocated CHL and BR to the village residents from HL.

We could have been asking DCLG to close Heyes Lane because we had a surplus of allotments over local need; instead we are asking them to support our addition of extra plots, even if they are in a spot which is more convenient to the Parish Council and village needs.

I cannot understand why that is such an issue.

Hi Terry,
my comment above was simply meant to be informative.
The farmer (Andy) did I believe try to have the 'agricultural use only' thing removed from that field and was turned down by CEC; so it may not be as easy to remove it as you might wish.
As to any possible use of the field; who knows? I don't have an agenda for it; extra allotments, pasturage? extra car park? house-building? childrens' play area? wild meadow? 'natural' burial ground? pets' cemetery?
If you've seen it lately, you'll know that its just been dug over and (I am told) leveled.

In response to Cllr Keegan’s assertion that when I attend a Parish Council meeting I said “how pleased (I was) that we were swapping into a new site which would be Statutory”. This is a complete fabrication of the truth, I as the then North West Director of the National Allotment Society (NAS) stated that I was absolutely against any plans to close the Hayes Lane site and attempt to relocate the plot holders to another site irrespective of the status of the proposed new site.
I explained to the councillors that Local Authorities are required under Section 8 of the Allotments Act 1925 to obtain consent from the Secretary of State to dispose of statutory allotments and that Section 8 applications are considered against criteria set out by the Secretary of State and that consent would not be given unless the Secretary of State was satisfied that:
* the allotment in question is not necessary and is surplus to requirement;
* adequate alternative provision will be made for displaced plot holders;
* the number of people on the waiting list has been taken into account;
* that the authority have actively promoted and publicised the availability of sites and have consulted the National Society of Allotment & Leisure Gardeners (NAS); and
* the implications of disposal for other relevant policies, in particular development plan policies, have been taken into account.
I further pointed out that I understood that Cheshire East council had made it a specific condition of the lease that the Hayes Lane site could only be used as allotments. I was informed that an understanding had been reached with CEC that they would no invoke this clause. I phoned the CEC Planning Dept the next day to check if this was correct and was informed that it was news to them and as far they were concerned the lease was quite clear and that within the terms of the lease the land could only be used for allotments.
Two other points are I think are worth making: the Transport Statement ( Parking Assessment) commissioned as part of the planning process concluded that were more than sufficient parking available for the new facility around the Festival Hall, especially considering that the existing GP Practice had no car parking of its own at present; as a visitor to Alderley Edge the only time I have problems parking near the centre is during the working day and I would never of thought of parking near to the Festival Hall and walking back to the centre despite the fact that based on my experience there would be dozens of free spaces available. I understand that in its attempt to help to improve car parking in Alderley Edge the council have now decided to close the public car park at the Festival Hall! I can only assume that this reflects the fact that car parking fees at the Hall generate so little income as it is currently under-used.

Cllr Keegan is correct in the fact that I have stood down as Regional Director for the NAS but I am more than willing to continue to offer advice and support to the allotment holders in Alderley Edge.

Thank you Dave for clarifying these points.

Dave Morris,

You have so gone down in my estimation; fortunately I do not have to rely on your memory which is clearly faulty. You did say to me after the formal meeting had closed that “I am pleased you said the new site would be Statutory”. My witness is the former Chairman of the Allotment Society who had accompanied you that day on a site inspection of the proposed Lydiat Lane. The former Chairman reported to me that you were very pleasantly surprised that Lydiat Lane was such an enormous site, so I was not surprised that you seemed amenable.

Recent advice from NAS - your organisation - which I have in writing on NAS letterhead is that the three Allotments in Alderley Edge are temporary. The registers at NAS are based on the 1996 survey.

The tests for disposal of a site, which you repeat above, are easily met by the Council:
* AEPC would be within its rights to restrict Allotments to AEPC taxpayers, which would easily make Heyes Lane surplus. (50% of the 3 Allotment sites are non resident for tax purposes) Despite having the right to exclude non residents, we choose to retain them because we are providing far more allotments than needed, even with them on board.
* Lydiat Lane could take 3 times the Heyes Lane site and wipe out the waiting list.
* Consulted the NAS? Actually we can not get the same answer twice from the NAS.
* Taken the Development Plan into account? Cheshire East Planning recently gave approval to the adjacent site to dispose of a green space which had been refused by previous Inspectors. The Development Plan apparently no longer supported green space. Besides, AEPC are improving the vitality of the village.

I find your remarks about phoning the Planning Department quite enlightening. Very few people in Alderley Edge can get through to the Planning Department, and since there is no live planning application, I doubt very much that they would offer an opinion on a site which does not come within their normal purview.

The remarks about the income from Festival Hall are just so facile and clearly lacking in local knowledge. Cheshire East Council had a contract from AEPC to patrol and enforce the parking on the Festival Hall site; they were renewing the Parking Order, and they realised that the contract we had with them had a break clause to allow development of the site. Since they had no wish to consult on a new Parking Order and then within 3 months to tear that order up, they renewed the order without Festival Hall on it.

That meant that the Parish Council had to issue local permits, and interestingly there are 44 local permits for businesses, and the businesses want more when we open the new car park.

So I am pleased that you can always find a parking spot in Alderley Edge, but a great many businesses are suffering because the parking is out of kilter with shopping wishes.

As a Parish Council we will be arguing that case at DCLG and, if necessary, at every higher Court available until we exhaust all avenues.

AEPC will quite happily defend its approach to Allotment provision at DCLG, and we believe that under our watch things will improve. Under the AEAGS watch, they have allowed multiple occupancies (individuals having 4 plots, 3 plots, 2 plots and 1.5 plots) alongside 26 people squeezed on to Heyes Lane for only 16 plots. How can it be in keeping with the legislation that waiting lists (up to 30 people from the list we received from Cheshire East) are put in a drawer and the AEAGS never once approached the council to provide more allotment land? You know that if 6 people approach the Council (i.e. on the waiting list) the Council is required to address the situation. Here we have a council willing to address the situation for public benefit and the Heyes Lane Allotment Holders are doing their darndest to frustrate the Council. By their own admission they are 10 plots short on Heyes Lane.

Allotment holders and Allotment Societies are very keen to tell us of their rights, but very reluctant to address their responsibilities. The sites are public assets, not the fiefdoms of a closed circle.

Parish council Lets have a meeting re the planning application and other issues raised here on this forum.

Next week ?

Fenton
Chairman
AEAGS

James Barker your argument is totally flawed and without merit. Yes, there are some parents from all the local schools that park illegally but there are also plenty of other drivers that park illegally in the village when shopping. Additionally, the school traffic is twice a day at drop-off and pick-up times yet I wasn't aware that the parking problems in the village were only during these two short windows. If this was the case then there would be a different strategy. PS I abhor all illegal parking, particularly when it puts pedestrians at risk. I never drive into the village, I love to walk.

Well. Cllr Keegan is nicely showing his true colours in this issue.

His ideas of taking over the Festival Hall for 'only a quid' and his plans to bludgeon everyone into doing what he says will be done - whether legal or not - are now becoming obvious.

The Heyes Lane allotments are a Statutory site. Cllr Keegan, you have confirmed AND denied this at various stages. A Statutory site must be dealt with in a certain manner, legally. This does not suit you - obviously - so you disregard the legal requirements.

I voted for you. I really wish I had not.

Bring on the next AEPC election, and I hope we can stop your search for power and profit.

Keep the village for the people, not for the Parish Council.

I may be in a minority but I am afraid I will not be heartbroken if the allotments are to go. I have no vested interest in local property empires but I did live on Heyes lane for many years and am now on the other side of the Village. My daughter however still lives on the road very near the allotments. Many times when walking to the high street down Heyes Lane I would find myself scooping litter and debris up from the messy overgrown hedgerow surrounding the site. A lot of it came from the allotments themselves. Ragged bits of old blue plastic (used for covering plants) tesco bags which had plant debris in them would blow off the stakes and hedges on the allotments ( were they there as bird scarers or decorative features?). My daughter took photos of the mess 2 years ago in order to show Streetscape the messs. Indewd she offered her car and services to one allotment holder to remove rubbish on the site to the local dump. He did not bother to turn up! Several of the plots are a shameful tangled mess and have not been grown on for years. So I do not see it as the pleasant green "oasis" as describeed and in the winter it is merely an eyesore. Now that you are about to be evicted there is a flurry of activity at the site. It is still not as tidy as it could be and I sense a certain "dog in the manger" attitude from the more vociferous allotment holders. So no! I will not be sorry to see them go and I support our local unpaid PC with the attempt to create a much needed green car park.

What has been lost in time is that "allotments" or gardens for the people were the historic appeasement/replacement subsequent to the "Common" being fenced and re-distributed after the enclosure Act. During the period of industrial/urban growth allotments/pleasure gardens were created to fulfill the "common" right of everyman to be able to grow food and graze his animals if he so wished. Land was set aside for this sole purpose. It should not therefore be so easily taken away.

Yes Mike, because the way to sort out the litter problem is to tarmac it over and build a car park? How many spotless car parks have you seen recently?

lost in time terry but as a revolting peasant that wants to grow food.... a car park aint quite the same .

Ruth,

I started out treating the Allotments as Statutory, despite not being certain. DCLG put me on to NSALG - the National Society - and they sent me, in writing - notification that MBC had advised them in 1996 that the Allotments in Alderley Edge were temporary, and not Statutory. Then I went to the Archive Office in Chester, and I have ordered two relevant Map 9’s at two different dates, both of which are sealed and dated.

The 1952 Map 9 shows the land at Heyes Lane, to be just Allotments (i.e. temporary). The 1973 Map 9 shows the land at Heyes lane to be Statutory Allotments.

I believe the Urban District Council decided to classify the Land as Statutory before transferring the Assets to MBC - the Archive shows that the UDC had a “Local Government Reorganisation Committee” reporting for two years before demise in 1974.

Our approach - as I have said many times - is to comply with the tests which DCLG set out and all of our actions attest to that, so I kind of take the hump to have you think we are not complying with the law. The one time we sought to avoid DCLG was when your National Society told me we did not have to comply.

As for your comments about my resolve to keep going forward, can I remind you that AEPC were successful in making the Chief of the Planning Inspectors come to Alderley Edge to review that awful planning decision. I think I am right in saying that we are the only Parish Council to have a decision reviewed on site by the Chief Planning Inspector, and though it did not help, we did secure a promise that the Inspector who took the decision would not be allocated any residential Appeals again. So that resolve works for everyone - my role is not to “win” but to make sure that EVERY elector’s voice is heard. I have always tried to do that, which is why I will be canvassing for your vote next May!

As I understand, the car park will not be covered in asphalt, but will look more like the NT car parks. I would fully support the allotment holders if they could bothered to love the site a bit more and TIDY up. I would not expect Chelsea Flower Show but really! Case on point being the hideous blue plastic tarp and horrid dodgy plastic cones (as seen on the above photo). These eyesores have been there for years......

One point worthy of repetition - The Medical Practice has stated clearly that ample provision has been made for staff and patient parking in the design and build plan WITHOUT the need to use allotment land.

There must be no suggestion / threats that without the allotment land the Medical Centre cannot go ahead as the two things are not linked.

I would like to lay a wager.

I'm prepared to bet that within ten years of it's allotment holders being forced to vacate their plots, the Heyes Lane allotment site will have had planning consent for building of residential or commercial properties.

That (unfortunately) is the confidence that I have in the "stewardship" of our parish councillors and I wait with interest to see if there will be any takers.

Without a shadow of a doubt Alan. It is so obvious that is the grand plan and the likes of Frank Keegan will not stop until he gets his own way. I wonder what the driving force could be?

I totally agree Alan - I can't see how any car park built on that site would get used or alleviate the parking issues in the village.

People won't walk as far as the Festival Hall car park from the village - why would they walk further to Heyes Lane? It's much easier just to park stupidly or even illegally.

I too would wager that the "underused green car park" would be sold off to developers having had little or no impact on the parking issues in the village. Sceptical - possibly, but I think realistic :(

And of course let's remember that at no time has the new Medical Centre project been reliant on turning the allotments into a carpark as far as I can see...

I still haven't heard a clear answer to the question 'why can't the building go ahead, leaving the allotments alone, until the clear requirement for a car park has been proven'.

As this is such a major issue to the village, which effects so many people at different levels, it would have been less divisive, cheaper (and produced a mandate) to have held a local, Alderley only, referendum on the proposal.

I agree with Alan Brough although I think he is being very generous in saying 10 years. I would say maybe 5 years.

I don't believe that anyone really thinks that people will park their cars in this car park and walk into the village to shop/eat or walk their child/children to and from school. It will just not happen.

I also agree with Graham and his point about waiting to see if this car park is needed.

I just so hope in a few years there will not be a block of 'apartments' standing on this land.

And I do agree a little bit with Mike Parker. A clean up now and again would not be a bad thing. Not expecting Waitrose Fruit and Veg isle standard but a basic tidy round.

I've been uncharacteristically quiet during this particular thread, but any long-term users of this site will be in no doubt where I stand on this debate. I have contested Frank Keegan's thinly veiled plan to 'free up' the Heyes Lane allotment site for future housing development since it first surfaced more than 3 years ago. I am truly heartened that now, three years on, opposition is such that Keegan can no longer claim (as he did back then) that it is only obstructive allotment-holders who are standing in the way. This precious green space (which may need a tidy up now and then, admittedly,) is cherished by many more residents of the village. The allotment-holders continue to have my unwavering support in their efforts to protect it.

How about some innovation and have both allotments and a car park , by creating a green roof of allotments for the car park. This is an increasingly popular approach in other parts of Europe such as Denmark ands has the added advantage of absorbing the rainwater as climate change bites.