Should dogs be on leads in village park?

I'm in total agreement with Cllr Matthew LLoyd whereby he states that if there is already a Bylaw against dogs off leads, THEN IT SHOULD BE ENFORCED !
Who are these other Councillors who are trying to justify not enforcing this Bylaw just because another Bylaw (the Bylaw banning cycling in the park) is being broken.
Both the banning of cycling and the banning of dogs off leads should be enforced.
The penalty should be more than just a slap on the wrist.
It should be the death penalty, at least, or worse !!

As a responsible dog owner and mum who enjoys the park with both my little boy and my dog, I don't understand the problem with letting dogs off the lead (as long as they aren't dangerous of course, and they are kept out of the children's play area). In six years of walking my dog in the park I have only once seen an irresponsible dog owner. The vast majority of people who walk/exercise their dogs in the park are very responsible and clear up after their pets.
I think this issue is more about dogs fouling than being off the lead which is actually a wider village issue and we should spend our time tackling that because that is a real problem.
Rolling out the fun police to stop responsible dog owners from exercising their dogs in the park will do nothing to stop the irresponsible few, who will continue to let thier dogs foul, wherever they are, on or off lead, in or out of the park.
I used to let my dog off in the park (I didn't know I couldn't) but I don't any more, only because someone is now keeping chickens in the neighboring allotments, but when I did I always picked up after him and still do, and I never let him into/on the children's play area.

I cannot really believe that educated people would put children's health at risk by allowing dogs to run free to foul a public park and that any councillor could condone this. I wrote year ago on this site to say how, as a visitor to your village, I was incredibly surprised to see so many "deposits " on the streets. A year later nothing appears to have changed. It is at odds with the way the village likes to portray itself as a desirable place to live. Never known a sweet wrapper cause Toxicaria !!

I just know that it won't solve the problem Patricia. All it will do is stop responsible people from using the park, as they will go elsewhere to exercise their dogs. The people who let their dogs foul in the park (and other places around the village) will continue to do so.

As a Guide Dog puppy walker. You will never see me with my Guide Dog puppy off the lead in the park. The reason is not dog fouling (I always have nappy sacks with me in case of accidents). A dog off its lead is not under control!!

With the best will in the world, if you let a dog off its lead it will run around, that is why you do it. In guide dog speak it is a "free run". It may want to play with children, it may attack another dog, it may run at high speed and knock someone over.

Yes, dogs need space for free running. A small public park is not an ideal space.

Can I just clarify David that you're proposing that children on any type of bike in the park no matter what age should be fined for breaking a bylaw? Of course you're not so don't be so pathetic about a few dog walkers, whose dogs are always under control, letting them off the lead on the grass area during the early part of the morning when children are at school!

Brian... I assume you bring your trainee guide dogs to the park to socialise them and get them used to new stimuli... surely if there were any dogs not under control that could potentially undermine your training then you wouldn't be training them in the park?

Keeping controlled dogs on leads is just ludicrous FULL STOP.

A dog not a lead is a dog that is not being controlled. My guide puppies come to the park to learn to ignore other dogs. Impossible when the other dog is not being controlled by its owner.

Elly Herald. There is no such thing as a dog under control.
A dog is never really "under control" as all it takes is for some bitch to run across it's path and it suddenly loses control and it's out of control. (Bit like us humans really)
A Bylaw is a Bylaw. That's why they have them .. That's why it's not pathetic ! End of story !

A touch of fact...am I the only one who has actually read the bye-laws re. the park and dogs?...its a document entitled 'Pleasure and Recreation Ground Bye Laws'...para. 6 says only that dogs should be 'under proper control' (and mustn't worry any beast!)...no mention of leads whatsoever.
Para. 4 says that no 'barrow,truck, machine or vehicle' (except child conveyance or invalid conveyance) 'be brought into the pleasure ground'...which could mean (a priori) bikes?.
So if anyone wants to see bye-laws enforced, you can ignore dogs not on a lead but may mean that you have to tell parents to take their child's bike out of the park; I wish you well with that one!
Para. 5. says 'no bill, placard or notice'; so the helpful notices about May Fairs or Xmas events shouldn't appear?...that's silly?
Teasing aside, shall we just get on with our lives and 'forget' about bye-laws that our forebears wrote in 1933?
Please no one suggest that C.E. should re-write the bye-laws...can't you just imagine what our noble leaders would come up with? no dogs as their flatus contains methane that contributes to global warming? for health and safety reasons, no children under the age of 21 shall play on the play equipment? breast feeding to be compulsory in the park?
Hi ho, let's get a life!

Fantastic post, Mr H! That really made me 'lol'. I agree with every sentiment.
Some byelaws were created for different times altogether and, as you eloquently wrote, are often over-restrictive and irrelevant to todays society. Again, well said!

To be transparent can anyone provide a link to the bylaw document so that all villagers can review. To be fair if certain bylaw is enforced it would be discriminating to not follow suit to enforced all bylaws.

Dog walkers and families with bicycle, scooters, roller skates makes up a good proportion of regular park users, with the restriction place on them would it reduce the use of the park?

I agree, it does feel silly to suggest bring in bylaw that was written from another era.

Rewriting bylaws would be a complete no no - just the issue with alotments and the Festival Hall has been a complete saga, how much public money would be wasted if we were going to review and rewrite the bylaws? Why not spend the money on better playing equipment and toilets that all villagers has been asking for.

There is already a national law on Dog Fouling, I can't see enforcing dogs on lead would change anything. Those who are offending would continue to do so.

David...I'll stand up and be counted...I'm a Parish Councilor who is (a) pro dogs off leads and (b) believe that all bye-laws should be enforced if any are; can't pick 'n choose.
Rachael...as far as I know, there is no bye-law against chickens in the park...on allotments? I don't know and I'm not inclined to open M/S Pandora's box on that. I had a wander around Google before writing on this estimable site; seemingly dogs don't even have to be kept on a lead on the highway...now that is silly?
Brian...all us 'good dog people' carry poo bags of course...as to greater spaces; there's always the Edge...which alas is often 'knee deep' in poo.
Brian & David...are you a teeny bit obsessed with dog control? The only times I've been knocked over or had to 'jump for it', in the park, is children on bikes; the exercise involved keeps me young!
Chris...thank you for your kind words.
Ricky...you are so right! ( I always think people are right when they agree with me!).
Elly...good to see your mama and I have brought you up in the 'right' manner!

Duncan Herald

Duncan Herald, so you do have a hidden agenda after all ! I'm not "a teeny bit obsessed with dog control" at all. What I don't like is for dogs to be off the lead in public parks, such as the Alderley Edge Park.

As you have just stated, you've already been knocked over by children on bikes, so it could have happened just as easily with, say, a large dog running towards you off the lead?

And as for all the dog poo left around by irresponsible dogs owners, that's just disgusting !

If a dog, large or small, is off the lead in a Public Park, then there is no way the owner knows where the dog has been and what's it's doing. It could have run out of the park into the main road and caused an accident?

Dogs should be on a lead in public places at all times.

David..how can my agenda be hidden? I've answered you openly...I am as transparent as can be! Is there any other agenda item you'd like me to be open about?
You don't like dogs off lead in the Park...that is your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to both hold it and express it...clearly my opinion is different. Wonderful stuff democracy eh?
I could have been knocked over by a large dog...but I never have...I could be bowled over by onrushing hordes of nubile women who seek my company, but alas that too has never happened...let's deal with actuality rather than my or your suppositions!
Yes un-picked up dog poo is disgusting; happily there are only a few such numpty dog owners about...what about the un-picked up broken glass (which dog owners do pick up)?
Can a dog run out of the park into the road and cause an accident? As far as I am aware it hasn't happened...mainly 'cos most of the Park has secure fencing/hedging around it...more to protect children from the roads and railway, rather than dogs I think.

Totally agree with Brian Etchells and David Hadfield - dogs should be kept on a lead in public places. I have seen dogs off their leads running around the children's play area and across the bowling green. I have also had dogs jump up at me. I used to complain about dogs fouling back in the 1970s when I used to take my son playing!

Hi Diana...alas dogs sometimes get into play area BUT if parents would keep the gate closed, it might not occur?
Only way to keep dogs away from bowling green would be to put a fence around it? I understand that the bowlers would like that? Will C.E. pay for it? There is currently some damage to the grassed surface of the bowling green; the chaps who look after the green opined that it was caused by people making heel marks; people have been seen on the bowling green playing football, tennis, cycling etc. we've had tennis courts built and the footy pitch has new posts and new drains and there are new play equipment, so why would people play on the bowling green? beats me!...bring back the 'parky' please?

The byelaw appears to match closely the wording of the Dogs ( Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 in which the phrase "being at large (that is to say not on a lead or otherwise under close control) " appears.

In this Act, a dog has to be under close control in certain circumstances and there are two ways you can have a dog closely under control - one is by using a lead, the other is not on a lead but otherwise under close control.

As someone who has had close personal experience of a prosecution under the second limb of this provision I understand it well. My own border collie dog is a habitue of the sheep uplands of Snowdonia. He does not have a lead and walks closely to heel when requested to do so. When the question of closely under control came before a Bench of Magistrates, they accepted that staying within 10 yards of the owner and returning directly to the owners side when commanded, even when surrounded by sheep ( both sides agreed that this evidence was correct ) constituted close control and lead to the Magistrates finding that there was no case to answer. ( A half time submission in the legal parlance ).

So can we move on from the dogma ( lol ) that surrounds this discussion ? Brian Etchells is clearly obsessed by leads. Fortunately, the law does not agree with his view. On the other hand, dogs are not under close control when they are running around out of the sight of their owners. If I can see William and he is within 30 or 40 yards - then I have close control - I know what he is doing and I can summon him back to my side in a flash should it be required. I do not let him out of my sight and I do not let him get far from me - depending on the area we are in. I watch him at all times when he is with me and the second he squats - I am there bag in hand.

I am sick of dog poo in the park and on the pavements, I am at a loss to understand why some people bag poo and then hang it on railings or hedges. If your dog does not come when called immediately then it needs to be on a lead. But, if you can exercise proper close control of your dog, then the law does not generally require a lead.

Duncan has a pretty sensible approach to this matter and should be congratulated.

And Lisa - it's 'offence', not 'offense' - the Americans did not take over the whole planet just yet :-))))

This is getting very much an argument between dog owners and and non dog owners. the vibe is almost like discrimination.

1. Do we really have a problem?

2. Is the problem to do with dogs off-lead or dog fouling or dogs entering to children play area?

3. What is the number of dog off lead incidents in the park? Is there regular issue with certain owner (s)?

4. Is there an alternative solution for dog owners? Is the council providing a dedicated space as dog park? If so, it should be within the walking distance. Just like the allotment holders, dog owners should not required to drive to the dog park.

5. How much would it all cost to find alternative and to police it? Is it good use of tax payers money? Shouldn't we be cutting cost rather than wasting money! The Lyme Green Depot in Macclesfield already wasted £800k of tax payers money! I don't want to see council tax going up again!

6. Should we really be wasting our effort talking about such none issue where we have many bigger issues like illegal and unsafe carparking. I personally reported the car accident when a child was hit at Eaton Drive and catapulted into the air due to the lack of car parking for school run. But nothing was done.

Marc...I am astounded...I am agreeing with you...am I becoming a moderate or are you inclining 'rightward'?
As to those imbeciles who hang dog poo on railings of shove it under hedges; shooting is too good for them...or maybe not!
Duncan Herald

For those of you that think a dog is under "close control" when not on a lead. i don't know the law, in fact I am not that interested in bye Laws set many years ago. I do know that The Guide Dogs for the Blind Association advise puppy walkers, like myself to not let the dog off the lead in a public space, due to the possibility of events as I have already described.

If you want to see evidence of what a so called "well trained" dog under "close control" can do, I suggest you go onto you tube or The Guide Dog's for the Blind facebook page and look up dog attack.

I repeat my point, you may think your dog is well trained and under close control. All dogs are descendent from wolves. A hunter, gatherer animal. Guide Dog policy is to train the dogs to ignore that instinct.

Duncan Herald, in answer to your comment about you being open and transparent, you were not initially "open and transparent" because in your first posting as a reply to my comments, you did not state that you were a Parish Councilor.

It was only later that you announced you were a Parish Councilor, hence my comment about you having a hidden agenda, especially as you have now stated that you are AGAINST dogs being on leads in public places. (Thought there was a Bylaw about this) ?

Is one of the duties of a Parish Councillor to be seen to uphold the law ?

So, whatever your personal views, you should be seeking ways to make sure dogs are kept ON a lead whilst in a public place, not letting personal prejudice sway you away from this.

Duncan, you have made my train journey so much more enjoyable! You will never win over those with blinkered views about dogs under control. As you say, we all have our own opinion and thank god we arent all the same as life would be so dull and i woudldnt be entertained with everyones posts, brilliant!

Men are descendent from apes. Also a hunter gatherer animal.
Many of the village Wives would agree that us men also need to be on a tight leash, especially so many 'lady k9s' decends upon the village at the weekend trying to bag their own an alpha male!

David there is no bylaw stating that dogs must be on a lead so I'm not sure what you're referring to or 'relying' on?

And Brian, as a guide dog trainer, surely you are aware how well controlled dogs can be? If dogs as we know them are still so close to wolves in temperament, which they are not, then why would they be used as guide dogs if so potentially dangerous and savage? What you're suggesting is that anyone who is not 'trained' to train a guide dog, such as yourself, cannot ensure their pet dog will ignore it's basic wolf like instincts.....am I not safe in my own home for fear of a Springer Spaniel savaging me in the middle of the night?!

Thank you to every logical and rational person who agrees with letting dogs off in the park as long as they're not on the tennis courts or young children's play area!

"let sleeping dogs lie" CHARLES DICKENS

David H.... why would I state that I am a Parish Councilor? (1) Its been stated many a time here on this wonderful site and (2) I am not claiming to speak for the Parish Council, I am giving my own opinion/s.

There is NOT a bye-law re. dogs on leads; there is in the bye-laws no mention of dogs having to be on a lead, only that dogs should be effectively under control (whatever that means!).

Of course Parish Councilors support upholding the law; there is NO law that dogs should be on a lead...how often do I have to say that afore you 'get it'? Can I make it any clearer; NO LAW ABOUT DOGS BEING ON A LEAD...Hallo?

John M...congrats on your unblinkered views...welcome to the democratic & freedom gang!

If there is a wish to keep dogs away from the bowling green (do you know how much it costs you guys to maintain the bowling green?) then put a fence around it...will C.E. pay for a fence? Will the bowlers pay for a fence? Do you, the majority wish to pay for a fence? Tell me what you want and I'll do my humble best to strive for that!
Ricky...you are a good guy...maybe a little weird, but good!

On the Carrs, in Wilmslow,C.E. have (I think) decided to ban dogs except on a lead for a part of the area...do that in A/E park?...give over a part of the park to 'freedom dogs'? Yeah right!

Please remember that you vote/elect both C.E. and Parish councilors...if you don't like what happens, get rid and if you do like what's happening, vote to keep us/me in place...its all down to you!

Duncan Herald (Parish Councilor)

Thank you to every rational and logical person who agrees with me that a public place is not a safe place to let any dog off a lead. That is why the bye law was put in place. Maybe if we all followed all the laws all the time without someone having to check on us we wouldn't need a police force and we would save a lot of money

Oh, wouldn't that be wonderful

Big Brother strikes again... my dog doesnt need to be on a lead as he does exaclty what he is told!

Duncan Herald and Elly Herald ...........

The Alderley Edge Parish Council had a heated debate and, according to the first sentence at the top of this page, it is an offence to let dogs off leads in the Park ....... Hence the discussion.
So, why are you claiming there is no Bylaw about this subject.
Quite clearly, according to the first sentence, that is exactly what you were debating, or have you forgotten already ?
In fact, one of your fellow Councilors stated quite clearly that there IS a Bylaw about this.
Cllr Keegan said "Given there is a Bylaw stating that all dogs must be kept on leads in the park" ...... How clear do you want it to be ? ........ What do you not understand ?

Why would you state you are a Parish Councilor ?
Because there may be numerous Duncan Herald's (God forbid) in the area and it would help if you said you were THE Cllr. Duncan Herald who was opposed to leads on dogs in the Park.

Elly Herald ....... I think you've got a pretty thick skin giving advice to Brian Etchells .
I don't know him, but I would assume that as he's a Guide Dog Trainer for the Blind, he probably knows more about training dogs than you ever will.

How can anyone be "rational and logical" in letting their dogs roam around the Park without being on a lead ? ... As far as I'm concerned that's totally irresponsible and inconsiderate.

Maybe if a few more Alderley residents trod in all the dog poo left around in the Park, then you may eventually wish to reconsider your views.

Brian...I keep writing this and why oh why don't people read it? There is NO bye-law regarding Alderley Edge park, which requires dogs to be on a lead. You are quite welcome to disagree with that situation but please don't wrongly promulgate a claim that there is such a bye-law.
Its a nice little park...we keep it a quiet and pleasant place...most users who speak with me seem to want to keep the park as it is...and are happy enough to 'live and let live'...dogs, children on bikes, bowlers, football players, etc. Shall we agree to disagree about some 'bits' but then simply get on with it as a whole?
Tom...I so agree with you...I believe that 'dogs-not-on-leads' is supported not only by many dog owners but also by those who don't truly care one way or the other, but do resent it when our 'masters' (aka big brother) try to tell us what to do.

THERE IS NO BYE-LAW
THERE IS NO BYE-LAW
THERE IS NO BYE-LAW
THERE IS NO BYE-LAW
THERE IS NO BYE-LAW

Ok, you all get it now!

1. Fouling and dog on lead is not a directly related issue. People who don't pick up is already breaking the law. There is a national on Dog Fouling.

2. If dogs are so vicious then Brian why are you training them for the Blinded? I would suggest a computer guiding device would be more 'in control', not likely to maul the owner and the family.

3. I agree there are dogs that are uncontrollable which should never been let loose, we have many humans who are uncontrollable too, these people create more litter and cause damage. And I return back to point 1, is not the dog not picking up their poo, it's the irresponsible owners.

Finally.

THERE IS NO BYE-LAW
THERE IS NO BYE-LAW
THERE IS NO BYE-LAW
THERE IS NO BYE-LAW
THERE IS NO BYE-LAW

If you take a walk around Wood Gardens you'll see dog muck on every corner and that's from dogs on leads!! Dogs off leads in parks are only as bad as kids running around and often the biggest chance of a collision is a running child. Are we going to insist on leads for children now?!

Being completely matter of fact it is the owner/guardian/parent who must be given the accountability. That is, to stop a child or dog running wild across roads or anything else. Empower people and the vast majority will be responsible, the few who aren't will not be 'straightened out' by rules and cost prohibitive policing anyway!

No dogs on the children's play area I agree with, but the park is open space to be used with common sense and respect for others.

Well done DH for some very well put points.

I fear we have a dialogue of the deaf - for once I am pleased that Duncan is the one with the vote that counts.

Is the park designated as a public open space?
It is a small park, my puppies are exercised on a wide open field away from the public. They are well trained and probably would not hurt a flea. NOTE PROBABLY!! They are not vicious animals as you imply, they are beautiful, well trained dogs I wish to take them around the park so they can get used to being around other dogs and humans. I cannot do that training with dogs not on the leads, not being under close control. It is not about the law, it is about dog control

it appears that some dog walkers are their own worst enemy. if everybody picked up their own dog mess I doubt there would be a problem.
Its saddening to find people so concerned about letting dogs off leads esp when there does not seem to be much supporting evidence, how have people come to this view?
Whilst on the one hand, I feel the park is a good 6am morning stroll for the dog on the way to buy the paper and a cheese pretzel from waitrose, before walking back and either getting into bed from nights or going to work; There is plenty of open land all around us to give a dog a full stretch.
The bye law vagueness supports both the for and against, which is a good thing. If something happens, this gives us the power to interpret and take action but likewise if there is no issue at the time then there are no offences.
There needs to be some lubrication (not literally) to ensure that all park users can fully enjoy the park with causing as little impact on others as possible. Perhaps this comes in the form of compromise and a touch of empathy. Otherwise nothing will be achieved and this topic will go from funny quip to insults back and forth. yawn.

Maybe this link will convince you.

http://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2012-07-09/guide-dog-attack-rise/

Thats horrific Brian,

Do you have anything closer to home/reports in Alderley? I don't think anyone is disputing that dog attacks occur.

I don't. But I don't want there to be any dog attacks

If you stay indoors you will be safe. It a dangerous world out here!

Hi Drew... you're prob. right... we are starting to go around in circles now...perhaps we should tackle something else?... world peace?... um, p'raps not.
I have learnt some things from all this...

Many dog owners wish to retain the right to let their dogs off lead in the park...some dog owners don't.

Dog owners need to pick up ALL dog poo.

Some people resent the big-brother approach by 'authority'.

Parents need to ensure that the gate to the young childrens' play area is kept shut.

There may be a need to errect a fence around the bowling green...3' high to keep dogs off? 4' high to keep children off? 5' high to keep teenagers off? If you wish to see a fence of some sort, tell your elected representatives at CEC... Councilor Menlove is the portfolio holder for this stuff (portfolio holder; oh dear, how we politicians do love our titles!) and Councilor Jones is the new Leader of the Council and Councilor Keegan is the man representing the geographical area of Alderley Edge.

You may wish to recall that CEC have a stated intention of turning over the park to the Parish Council; if so, then you can shout at and my colleagues and I !
You may care to know that at the Carrs in Wilmslow, one area is prob. to be made dogs-only-on-leads (I think that's from the large car park up to the river bridge) and the rest will be left as -dogs-run-free. That won't work in A/E park?
Enjoy y'all.

Wow, this subject has clearly opened some heated discussion, I walk my dog off lead in the park and have never had an issue, as long as dogs are under control as well as the children that use the park then all shall be fine.
in any case if there was a law that stated dogs have to be kept on the lead, how do you plan to police this???

Brian, can you tell me how long the park has been open to the public and their dogs and then find out how many dog related attacks there have been there since it opened??? then this will give everyone a more statistical view and then a sensible solution could be made.

I say, "if its not broken then don't change it" let the dogs run free, and keep your eye on your kids if you have concerns.

Surely it is irrelevant how many dog attacks their has been. We do not want one!!!!!!!! When a person or dog is attacked by a dog that is under control off its lead maybe you will all agree with me. The dog or child will have to keep the scars. I just hope it never happens.

I have resisted to post up to now, but here's my views.
First of all, I am an ex - Dog Warden, who has worked in some of the worst areas in the Manchester area, I have also worked in the MBC area, so I do know a thing or two. I currently have a dog (bitch) that Duncan knows only two well, we got her from the Cheshire Dogs Home so we know nothing of her past. Our dog is an active, agile dog who requires vigorous physical excercise every day (and gets it), given the breeds reputation of sometimes being quarrelsome with other dogs, I can't have her off the lead in the park, so for that reason I think it would be better if we went for a "Dogs must be on lead" By-Law.
So many times a dog will come bounding up to her and the owner can be 100 meters away and I get a dirty look when it seems that I won't let her "Play" with the other dog, I won't let her play with the other dog to protect the other dog (although she usualy only pins them down !
So it's "Dogs on Lead" for me.

Tom...the present bye-laws date from 1933, so there will have been dogs on the park since then... I think the land that is now called the park, was sold to the 'Council' in about 1924.

Hi ho, I thought that this concern had pretty much come to a natural end, but this week's Wilmslow Express has an article about what was said in the recent Parish Council, on the subject; alas with inaccuracies!

So to try and put the record straight...

1.the Express article has 'A byelaw ... prevents dog walkers letting their pets off the lead...'. Not so. The byelaw only has ... 'dog be and continue to be under proper control'.... I double checked this with the old Cheshire County Council byelaws... again it has ... 'under proper control...' and '... effectually restrained from causing damage to property...' So can we all accept that there is NOT a byelaw requiring dogs to be on a lead?

2. The Express has it that I caused 'outrage in the room', when I said that children cause as much mess as dogs... yes I said that... mea culpa... go visit the park in the morning or in the evening, sweet papers, plastic drinks bottles, etc. etc. often dropped within a few feet of a rubbish bin; worth mentioning that dog walkers (and older people with an older sense of tidiness?) do a lot of picking up of rubbish?

3. Apparently I said that 'we can't expect dogs to stop fouling, if they are left to run all over the park'... No I didn't!... as one who prefers dogs to be off the lead, why would I say something like that? Senility is possible i suppose!

4. The Express has it that 'Councillors agreed to ask Cheshire East to reinstate the 'dogs on leads' signs and enforce the byelaw'... there is no byelaw to enforce... no vote was taken on any reinstatement;.. come on Express, you usually get it right!

Can we stop now? The byelaws were written a long time ago ... the Alderely Edge ones in 1902 (then adopted by the A.E. U.D.C.in 1933) and the C.C.C. ones were written in 1968 (then repealed in 1973 and then confirmed in 1986)... boring?

Leave the cycling children alone...leave the dogs alone... enjoy the park!

Can I refer back to the original question?

Should dogs be kept on leads in the park?

Simple question, with a simple answer.

YES AT ALL TIMES!!!!!!

Quite right Brian ............... Yes Yes Yes !
Dogs should be kept on leads at all times whilst in Alderley Park.
Just to confirm that to have a dog "Effectually restrained from causing damage to property" (as stated two comments ago) means having it properly controlled, and as we all know, this means on a lead !

Hi David...no inference,please,,a law is exactly what it 'says'...the people who wrote the byelaws knew what a lead was...if they'd meant lead, then they would have written lead surely? They wrote effectually (i.e. effective?) control, so that's what they meant surely?
By the way, where would you suggest that dog owners should take their dogs, to let them off the lead? Or do you think that dogs shouldn't be allowed anywhere?

I suggest a wide open space in Britain's glorious countryside is an ideal place to let a dog exercise off it's lead provided the dog is trained to recall. A short journey away from the village finds ample countryside that is much more pleasant for everyone

Hi Duncan, you're getting into difficulties here because .......

1) How do you know for certain that the people who wrote the Bylaws knew what a lead was ?
(Were you there when the Bylaw was drafted in 1902. If not, how can you say that) ?

2) You don't know ..."what they meant" ... do you, so why say that you do know ?

3) It's for dog owners to decide where they go to let their dogs off the lead, not for me to suggest.

Brian; A 'wide open space in Britain's glorious countryside' used to be called a park.
It seems you are suggesting dogs can be let off leads in parks, just not in the park you use for training purposes. A bit nimbyist.

Hi David... my, this semantics is fun...in 1902 I am willing to bet that the 'town clerk' type person who wrote the byelaws and the councillors who passed them, knew what lead meant... and leash... and bit of rope ! Since when did 'properly controlled' mean 'on a lead'... I've looked up both 'properly' and 'controlled' in the dictionary and neither mentions the word 'lead'! Oh tush upon you, you're trying to impose your view upon the bylaws?

As to what 'they' meant... what 'they' wrote was what 'they' meant and thus anything 'they' did not write 'they' did not mean to be included?

We dog owners will listen to your advice... pray tell where you believe that we should take our pooches to poo.

Duncan - quit now - you are arguing with two people who will never change their minds. Thankfully, in legal terms, you are in the right, the Bye Law does not require leads and other laws in respect of dogs accept that a dog can be under close control when not on a lead. Let's let this topic come to a peaceful end ...

David... in your last comment your criticizing your own reasoning! If we (Duncan) don't know what 'the people who wrote the Bylaws meant', as your suggesting, then how do we know that your interpretation of what it means is correct and that what it suggests is that dogs should be kept on the lead? I'm interested how often you actually use the park and for what purpose?

David... may I point out that you've been relying on the Bylaw to suggest that dogs should not be off their leads and yet this is just your interpretation of the specific clause; why is your interpretation (made on 19th July at 2.55pm) better/more accurate than Duncan's? Also, if you don't mind me asking, how often do you use the Park and for what purpose?

So sorry. Silly me, I thought a wide open space in the countryside was a field. Sorry, I must have used the wrong dictionary

David Hadfield.. you are wrong pal, " having a dog properly controlled, and as we all know, this means on a lead " No thats not the case . my dog is trained to hand signals and to the whistle up to a mile away and wil do EXACTLY as i request .. although i must admit most people dont have their dogs anywhere near as well trained as my dog. But dont tar all by the same brush !

If we are going round in circles here, maybe it's because Cllr. Duncan Herald doesn't know what this discussion is all about. I repeat, at the top of this page the title of the article states;
"Should dogs be on lead in village park" ?
Now, the fact is that Cllr. Duncan Herald has totally disagreed with one of his fellow Councillors who said "there is a Bylaw stating that all dogs must be kept on leads in the park"
Why does Cllr.Herald dispute this fact when it was said at the Council meeting ?
Either he is wrong or Cllr. Keegan is wrong because one of them must have got their facts wrong, hence this discussion.

So, is there or is there not a Bylaw about this subject ?
If there is already a Bylaw about this, then why is one Councillor flouting the law ?
Is he there to support the law or not ?

Maybe Cllr. Keegan could join this debate and confirm finally if a Bylaw exists, or not ......

To Cllr. Duncan Herald and Elly Herald, .........
What on earth has it to do with you whether I use the park or not ?
As I'm a UK Taxpayer and Council Taxpayer, I have a right to air my views about this item.
You both seem totally irresponsible about dogs not being on leads whilst in the park.

As far as I'm concerned, I will not make any further comments about this subject as I find the whole attitude of Cllr. Herald to be totally alien to a normal debate, so ................................... "It's no good knocking if there's no one in" ...............

1. Anyone hurt from dogs off lead in Alderley Park?

Answer -> None.

2. Anyone hurt due to poor parking during school runs?

Answer -> Yes

3. Anyone experienced their car skidded when we had snow at Eaton Drive by the school?

Answer -> Yes

PS. I personally have been manually gritting Eaton Drive with a shrovel and box of grit for the last 4 winters, never once did we get any help!


Why waste time on non issues?

I'm a tax payer also a parent, my child goes to one of the local school. I demand the road to be made safe before wasting effort on non issues! Give us free local school buses, Lollipop men and Lollipop ladies, Gives us better parking solution for schools. Grit the road by the schools during snowy winter time.

We need these issues sorted out urgently, if not a child will get seriously hurt soon. Stop wasting effort on stupid things. Grow Up!

I can’t believe that there have been 56 comments so far on this!!! Brian regarding your comment, most fields in the open countryside are privately owned so in theory they would be trespassing if they didn’t have the owner’s permission. It would be like me letting my dog run around in your back garden without asking you.

James. How about letting your dog run around in your back garden like I do. Then your dog won't distract my dog or anyone else's dog. As regards fields, all NationalTrust land is owned by the nation and therefore you can't be trespassing on it because you own it.

National Trust is a register charity, it's land is privately owned, not own by the state nor the crown.

If there is any common land, I think we have to ask the Lord of Alderley for his permission first!

Rubbish. I suggest you check the national trust website

David H.... Councilor Keegan (If he said as you claim) is incorrect; there is no byelaw requiring that dogs be on a lead. Everyone else seems to have understood and accepted this, so please stop clinging to misinformation!

You are quite welcome to state your opinion; tho' if its based on a false premise regarding byelaws then your position is weak to say the least.

Why is my positon re. dogs and leads irresponsible? Is it simply because I beg to differ with your view?

I hope shortly to post something about chevron parking on London Rd. on this site (as soon as I can find my trusty tape measure); so that could be a fresh matter for you to excoriate me over!

Marc...you're right... this topic should slither to a halt... but then again, its kind of fun innit?

I'm going to stop as this is getting too childish.
If we waste any more effort on this and not focusing real effort on making the road safe, don't say I've told you so when a child get seriously hurt on Alderley's road.
People can comment what they like but there is no bylaw.

When people just use common sense then all this crying for banning this and stopping that is proven to be what it is, a waste of time! Most people do use common sense and put their dogs back on leads at busy times and near roads, however the few that don't won't be stopped by some unworkable rule! When the person was bitten by a dog at the fete last year a lead didn't help much! I witnessed it!! Neither does a lead stop some dogs fouling the pavements repeatedly around Wood Gardens, right next to the signs stating the maximum fine!

Dogs on leads at all times in the park - NO. Common sense - YES. Fouling is illegal, as I'm sure is letting your dog attack someone, that's all that's required thank you!

P.S. Please don't just blindly let your dogs run around neighboring fields and National Trust land without applying the same level of common sense. Livestock and dogs are not always a healthy combination and where they are concerned I do agree with dogs on leads, but that's just common sense for the protection of both the dog and the livestock.

It is also common sense that a Guide Dog needs to be trained to not be distracted by other dogs. So if you see me with my Guide Dog puppy in the public park of Alderley Edge please put your dog on it's lead and don't let it say hello.

Don't be responsible for a blind person not getting a Guide Dog to aid their independence.

Yes, that is also common sense!