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Will public have say at Parish Council meetings?

By Lisa Reeves - Tuesday, 31st January, 2012 - 13 comments

Members of the public are currently welcome to attend the monthly Alderley Edge Parish Council meetings but if they do they are not allowed to speak.

Obviously a council meeting needs to be regulated and isn't a free for all but I have been surprised when members of the public have attended, which is quite rare, and have been told they cannot speak.

In addition to attending Alderley Edge Parish Council meetings I also attend those of Wilmslow Town Council, Prestbury Parish Council and Knutsford Town Council.

The other councils all have an item on the agenda of every monthly meeting where members of the public are invited to speak, usually referred to as Public Participation.

At this point in the meeting members of the public are invited to ask questions or make statements on any issue affecting the community for a limited time period, usually ten minutes.

Public Participation is the first point on the agenda at Wilmslow Town Council meetings - "A period of not more than ten minutes will be made available for members of the public to ask questions or submit comments".

Last year Knutsford Town Council decided to move their Public Participation item so it takes place earlier in their meetings, which is standard procedure in many town and parish council meetings, to encourage greater levels of attendance at their meetings.

Speaking at the time, Knutsford Town Mayor Cllr Stewart Gardiner explained "If the opportunity to speak was brought forward it may encourage more people to attend because they won't have to sit through a two hour meeting."

At Knutsford Town Council meetings members of the public now have the opportunity to ask questions or submit comments during a 10 minute period towards the beginning of the meeting, then at the end there is another 5 minute period for Public Participation where local residents can ask questions or submit comments regarding matters not previously raised at the meeting.

Prompted by comments from members of the public who attended a Parish Council meeting last year and were told they could not speak, I contacted some of the councillors to ask why Alderley Edge Parish Council do not have a Public Participation item on their agendas or allow members of the public to speak at meetings and if members of the public wish to raise questions or make a statement at a Parish Council meeting what procedure do they need to follow?

I also requested a copy of the council's standing orders. The only reference I could find in them to public speaking is "If a member of the public interrupts the proceedings at any meeting, the Chairman may, after warning, order that he be removed from the Council Chamber."

I didn't receive a response to my questions but Cllr Mike Willliamson, Chairman of Alderley Edge Parish Council, did say "Our standing orders were written a long time ago, and I can't imagine that anyone on the Council has any idea what the thought processes of those who wrote them were!

"I have asked Anne (Parish Clerk) to place this matter as an agenda item for the February meeting of the PC, and we will review the situation and agree a way forward."

The Alderley Edge Parish Council meet once a month, with the exception of August, in the Council Chamber at the Festival Hall. The next meeting will take place on Monday 13th February, commencing at 7.30pm.

13 Comments

Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add your thoughts below.

Claire MacLeod Tuesday, 31st Jan, 2012 2:51 pm
So good to see this subject given 'column inches' on your site, Lisa. Given the repeated complaints of lack of transparency regarding a number of projects dealt with by AEPC, I would have thought a review of this issue is well over-due. Not allowing members of the public to express their opinions or ask questions of the council at meetings is likely to provoke suspicion and frustration amongst the electorate. This, especially when you compare their practice with that of other local councils who appear to be far more willing to respond to challenge.

It's a shame that this wasn't picked up on by the council itself, before having the question asked directly by you. However, I am optimistic that the council will reach the right decision when the subject is raised at February's meeting.
Fiona Braybrooke Tuesday, 31st Jan, 2012 4:28 pm
A very interesting article and i am sure it will be well supported by the Alderley Edge Residents. It is certainly long overdue that AEPC still conduct their meetings in such a manner......... Only in Alderley Edge!!!
Roy Sower Tuesday, 31st Jan, 2012 4:58 pm
Good god! democracy arrives in AE.
As a relative newcomer, things just keep getting better!
Vin Sumner Tuesday, 31st Jan, 2012 6:22 pm
Excellent article Lisa. Sometimes those in power like to think they know what's good for us rather than allowing us to express an opinion. After all the parish council as other "politicians" are our representatives.
Duncan Herald Tuesday, 31st Jan, 2012 7:57 pm
Evening All,
1. The topics for the parish council are available in advance and the minutes are available after each meeting and Lisa does a fine reportage on alderleyedge.com; so where's the lack of transparency there?
2. let's talk about 'public participation' of course.
3. Democracy arrives does it... the Parish Councilors were elected democratically by 1 person 1 vote (which is more than one might say about the current leader of the union; oops sorry, labour party!).
4. If anyone wants to currently express an opinion, there are so many avenues open; so don't blame the Parish Council if your opinion is not the accepted one!
5. How nice to see the Parish Council referred to as 'those in power'... cor! I didn't realise how powerful I was; I think I'll invade somewhere... oops silly me, that's what labour prime ministers do!
6. Anyone out there who works in business will,I am sure, agree that you simply can't put out all details about plans, aims etc. Not if you want them to come to fruition?
7. Can people please stop bashing the Parish Council over the head with a stick marked allotments. It was 100% Cheshire East's idea to hand over the allotments and if the Parsih Council doesn't take them on, they will be given to some unspecified (by C.E.) private organisation... if so, wanna bet you'd see a bunch of detached houses there? and no alternative allotment site offered? We may not always be your ideal group, but we are a damn sight better than a spec. builder?
My I do feel better for that little rant.
Roy Sower Tuesday, 31st Jan, 2012 9:04 pm
Duncan, I don't think that this forum exists for people to make points about political parties (in your case, the Labour party). The Tories were enthusiastic supporters of the campaign in Iraq.

Surely its a good idea that people, if they wish to, can not just attend council meetings but also participate on a dynamic basis - isn't this good practice in terms of localism?

This is a healthy debate.
Fiona Braybrooke Tuesday, 31st Jan, 2012 9:21 pm
A great point Roy. This is about local residents being able to have a voice at the council meetings. That is called democracy.
Mike Norbury Wednesday, 1st Feb, 2012 9:47 am
trust has been lacking for a while thats why the beating with the allotment stick . can we trust you lot when its frowned upon to talk at your meetings?
Claire MacLeod Wednesday, 1st Feb, 2012 9:50 am
How reassuring that one of our Parish Councilors can feel better for a 'little rant'!

Can we assume from your post then, Duncan, that you believe there is nothing wrong in preventing the public from expressing their views or asking questions directly to the Parish Council at meetings? I'm not sure I agree that there are 'so many avenues open' to express an opinion, other than this site, of course, and the PC can't take credit for that.

Members of the parish may wish to ask a question or express an opinion in a public forum and seek various or specific responses from councilors, assuming they don't all always share the same stance on every topic.

Point 6 of your post is the one that concerns me the most. Surely, if by making a plan public you are risking its 'fruition', that suggests anticipated opposition. So any plans you anticipate might be opposed, you choose to discuss in private? I think this is what is meant by 'lack of transparency'. Having a public forum at Council Meetings will not resolve this, but at least it will allow the electorate the opportunity to have their opposition heard and recorded.

Finally, are you sure there are only two options for the future of the allotments? According to you, these are either the Parish Council or a private company who will seek to develop the land. What about Cheshire East Council handing it over to the allotment holders themselves? Is that not a viable third option? Have not the allotment holders been managing that land themselves since the allotments were created? At least then we could be reassured that the land would remain untouched, and the allotments safe.
Duncan Herald Wednesday, 1st Feb, 2012 12:29 pm
Hi Roy... don't begrudge me my little tease of the labour party; the cut and thrust etc?

There is a proposal that at the next Parish Council meeting, we discuss the possibility of public participation; can we be any faster or more open? The only problem I can see with the public speaking at P.C. meetings is that there will be speeches etc. and nothing will ever get done; perhaps the idea of a 10 minute limit is feasible?

Hi Claire... my own individual view is that I am not opposed to the public having their say; the P.C. will vote on that, in a democratic way, so thus a decision will be made. The only problem I foresee is that P.C. meetings would become noisy and indecisive? I used to try and speak at meetings of the old M.B.C.... most of the time I was not allowed to speak and on the rare occasions that anyone was allowed to speak, the time limit (as best I can remember) was 2 minutes.

Let me invent a situation re. point 6... let's say that we wished to buy a piece of land upon which to build a public toilet... if we announce this in advance, the price of that piece of land would straightway go up.

If you think that Cheshire East should give the allotments land to the present users of that land, you are free to approach Cheshire East to find out their response to that idea. Go for it.
Vin Sumner Wednesday, 1st Feb, 2012 1:00 pm
The world might improve if there was more thoughtful policy and less cut and thrust from politicians of all colours.

Transparency like sustainability seems to be a word that is used to provide some spin cover for actions which then seem to be totally at odds. The whole allotments debate seems to have been layered with all sorts of mixed messages.

Maybe meetings need to be noisy if voices are to be heard; though it may have little power the PC should exercise its responsibility to the village in as open a way as possible. No doubt , there are issues that require some greater degree of privacy, but these are few are far between. The comparison to a business by the way is wrong. The PC is a public body not a private institution or club.
Duncan Herald Wednesday, 1st Feb, 2012 2:51 pm
Hi Vin... doesn't a bit of cut and thrust cheer one up? I'm sure that Cameron and Milli sit down to a quick drink after calling each other names during PMQ!
Why do people keep telling me that the P.C. isn't transparent? I try to answer each question posed on this site (always assuming that I know the answer!). The allotments debate is difficult as C.E. don't answer our questions to them and so we can't always answer your questions. Voices can be heard... my 'bag' is the park and anyone who asks me questions whilst I'm in the park with my dog, gets every question answered; indeed people see me coming and run away crying 'stop telling us stuff'! The comparison to business is not wrong; the way we spend your money is a business; we try to use local people/businesses... indeed at the moment I am engaged in a dialogue with C.E. Officers to try and get jobs in Alderley Edge Park done by local businesses rather than by businesses from Crewe or where-ever. Why would you call the P.C. a club? The membership turns over fairly regularly and elections are held openly. In my time on the P.C. about a third of the Councilors have changed. We do try to represent all the parish inhabitants whatever their political beliefs; indeed I have no idea of the political beliefs of people who ask me things, unless they choose to tell me. After a P.C. meeting if I think that someone's question has not been answered, I make a point of trying to talk to that person. You seem to suggest that the P.C. does not go in for thoughtful policy; I can happily assure you that a great deal of thought goes into the decisions that are made.
Mike Williamson Wednesday, 1st Feb, 2012 10:41 pm
I have been Chairman of the Alderley Edge Parish Council for two years. I can state for the record that no-one who has ever attended a Parish Council meeting and has wished to address the Council on a matter on the Agenda has ever been refused permission to speak at one of our meetings. As Chairman, I have on one or two occasions have had the pleasure of asking members of the Public to make a contribution. In addition, the Parish Council always makes itself available to meet individuals or groups to discuss issues, either in advance of the monthly meeting or in separate meetings arranged with the individuals or groups concerned. In January members of the Parish Council have met to discuss the future of the Christmas Lights event and Christmas market, and met to discuss the forthcoming Jubilee celebrations. Our monthly meeting is very busy, in particular with considering planning applications, but the Council has never and never will exclude genuine interest and contribution. I would encourage anyone interested in the often mundane world of Parish Council business to attend our meetings. Despite the claims made in this forum, the Parish Council has nothing to hide, indeed we are proud of the work we do to address issues which profoundly effect residents of the Village, and we would welcome public support and participation in what is becoming a battle, with Cheshire East, for the future wellbeing of our Village.
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