Heyes Lane allotments protected by covenant

I was told, by someone who should know, that Cheshire East are wishing to hand down control of Allotments to Parish Councils throughout the county. All these Parish Councils except one have expressed no interest. It is just something else for them to administer manage. The one exception Is Alderley Edge Parish Council. It wil welcome the allotments with open arms. Not only that but it wants to get hold of them as soon as possible and certainly before the promised date of April 2012. Now we know there is a covenant in the title that limits use of the land and excludes buildings and car parking.

I was horrified to hear of the plans to move the Heyes Lane Allotments and use the land as a car park.

I live in Bramhall now but was raised in Alderley Edge with my dad having an allotment on Heyes Lane for about 50 years.

In fact my late father Rex Davenport was the secretary for the Allotment Society and had a similar battle to save the allotments approximately 20 years ago.

When dad looked into the legality of this plan he found that this land had been left to the people of Alderley Edge by Sir Humphrey de Trafford but there was a covenant which stated that land was to be used by the people of Alderley Edge for recreational purposes only.

Dad therefore won the battle against plans to use the land for a new doctor’s surgery. The council should have kept some of the land from the old cottage hospital instead of selling it for development.

Does a car park count as recreational purposes?

Sadly dad died in June this year otherwise he would have joined you in this fight but I'll let you know if I find any relevant information in his things. I know the story was covered in the local press.

Like Jill Horsfield i also lived about 100m from the Allotments as a child and horrified to think that these allotments could potentially be lost!!!

Why in 1992 when the cottage hospital closed and Macclesfield Borough council sold off the piece of land for development which i believe was for £650,000 did they not make provision then for the new doctors surgery to built on a pieve of land they already owned!!

This is not forward planning or beneficial to the residents of Alderley Edge..........

I am very pleased to read that there will be a public consultation relating to these plans. Whether or not the covenant still stands (and one would assume there would have to be clear evidence to the contrary), this will provide the action group with the opportunity they need to rally Alderley residents who are opposed to developing our village's diminishing green space. I would like to think if the opinions on this site reflect the majority of residents then Councillor Keegan's scheme will come to nought. I hope that if, to quote Councillor Menlove, "the community has more choice and control over local facilities and buildings", and if the community makes it clear they want the space left as is, then that is what exactly what will happen.

To try and gain a better understanding of the significance of the covenant I asked Cheshire East Council whether the covenant prevents the allotments from being turned into a car park or whether it can be removed.

I received the following response this morning.

Councillor Rod Menlove, Cabinet member for environmental services, said: “Covenants are designed to restrict changes of use and in exceptional circumstances can be removed through proper planning processes and possibly reference to the Secretary of State.”

That is an interesting response from Rod Menlove.... So a car park is an exceptional circumstance? I feel AEPC really are losing the plot here!!!!

Weren't we always led to believe that Allotments had special treatment (since they grow food), and would need an Act of Parliament to be removed ? Perhaps they're only special unless someone wants to concrete them over for a car park...

This is the most ridiculous development plan I've heard for a long time. I live near the festival hall, and there are many free spaces in the car park at any time of day. Does the fact that extra spaces are Not needed count for anything ?

This Doctors plan has been repeated so many times (and another contributor here mentions same plan from 20 years ago). Has anyone ever asked the Doctors if they want to relocate to Festival Hall ? Can someone from the Doctors post on here please ? And how much parking do the Doctors currenty offer their visitors ? (answer: zero)

This car park plan is something most residents will oppose, and the opposition organisers should prepare a petition to be presented to parish council and cheshire east so public opinion is properly represented.

I have lived in Alderley Edge for nearly fifty years and place great value on the allotments as an amenity used during all of that time by "real" Alderley Edge people.

I fail to understand how a relatively small medical practice could require the scale of land-grab proposed here. It seems to me that there is space around The Festival Hall to organise ample parking.

Would it not be a better a option to make Stamford Road and Talbot Roads cul de sacs to stop through traffic and then use the large square in front of the Festival Hall as car parking?

All these positive comments from everyone help justify our Action Group's needs to fight for the allotments and green spaces in our village. It would be really nice to get the views of the people who live on Lydiat Lane as to what they think of the proposed idea to move the allotments to their lovely area. Our group would also like to offer an open invite to any concerned residents of Lydiat Lane to come to our next meeting scheduled for 18:00pm on Monday 28th November at Power Engineering Consultants 11a London Road.

Alderley Edge is getting bigger like it or not (when will it be a town?), people are living longer and staying at home longer, but more people will want to see a doctor and more people will have a car, the development is not just to make a new surgery, it will be a new modern medical centre and not one where patients have two up a flight of stairs as the do now to see a doctor or nurse.

Also the Festival Hall will be refurbished to make people want to hire it because of it's good size and facilites (inc. a good sized car park). It's not about how many people are using the car park now, it's how many could be using it in the future.

Why does the P.C.want to take control of the allotment sites? Apart from the obvious car park plan.

They've already got one white elephant - the crumbling ugly pile next to the Heyes Lane site.

All the sites are managed by ourselves, the only monies spent on them come from our own funds.The councils have non - so they say!!

The rents are very cheap and can only be increased by pence per year, no profit there then.

The Beech Close site has major drainage problems which apart from a token look at, no money is ever forth coming to solve this problem which has been going on for years.

So apart from the magic money for the car park how about getting Cheshire East to sort out our existing problems before handing over another white elephant to the P.C.!!

All it needs is money!!

All we need is for Mr Keegans Puppet (sorry Parish) Council is to come off cloud nine and weigh up why Cheshire East want to dump the allotments and other facilities that earn them nowt .Think on!!

I am in total support of the action group against the development of the Heyes lane allotments.
Something has just struck me! Maybe after the completion of,the alderley edge bypass they have a surplus of Tarmac and white paint! I am not sure which councillor we would name it after or in fact George Osborne would take up the invitation to open the new car park!
Let's just get real they want this space for a housing development! It would be quite a sum for such a prime development site !

The medical Centre and the Festival Hall could be great assets to the village; so would be some more parking space as the streets are getting crammed with all-day parkers. Moving the allotment holders' plots would be a hard task and they should be offered some help (but they should not be growing trees there, should they?) The greater good would be for more allotment plots available, though better car access to them would be needed at the new site. A big car park is not a pretty village sight. It would need a good hedge screen around. It would also need to be securely closed between, say, 9 pm and 7 am. Remember that Wilmslow had trouble with boy-racers, noisy skateboard athletes, and drunken party-goers. The Trafford Trustees, who hold the covenants, are still there and might be persuaded to accept a well thought-out change for the "greater good".

Totally agree with the vast majority of people who live in Alderley Edge do not want the allotments moved to make way for a car park and Fiona Braybrooke , yes it would be a tidy sum for a housing development wouldn't it!

The Parish Council is surely there to listen to what their parishioners want! its clear that no one wants a car park

The village is very rarely crammed,there are often 40-60spaces available.
You would be very surprised if you had a walk round and counted them,as a few people have done to shove that point out of the equation!!

the parish council should listen but will they? thats why the action group has been set up to try and stop council / councillor egos riding rough shod over public opinion . hmm can you have a vote of no confidence at parish level? :-)

As we live in a democracy and these councillors are not representing the views of the residents of Alderley Edge, why can they not be removed from the AEPC with a vote of no confidence?
It appears that AEPC is more of a dictatorship and if we managed to restore peace in Libya surely these councillors could be removed?

Cllr Keegan started off with a car park as his best reason for all this and he must now realize his mistake because hardly anybody believed him. He also mentioned a new home for Alderley Motors though this now seems unlikely to be needed or unlikely that it could be provided in time even if it was built within the exisiting car park of the Festival Hall which was the original idea. We are left with only one thing, a new access road to a new entrance to the Festival Hall which might be handy if a new Medical Centre is built on the front. The medical centre itself is not an issue and there are no car parking requirements within the plans prepared. The Heyes Lane allotments are not part of the Medical Centre plans.

Let's just suppose the Parish Council are successful in transferring allotment holders to a new site down Lydiat Lane. What will they use the Heyes Lane allotment site for? In the short term, my view is they will use it for all the above:- a road to a new entrance to the Festival Hall maybe, possibly some parking for a relocated Alderley Motors though ostensibly for public use and not much else besides. In the long term, the land may be put to other use ...

The objective is to get rid of the allotments and to create space for them on land down Lydiat Lane. This then triggers a whole lot of options for the developer who will commit substantial cash in return. The most obvious next step will be to build houses on the land trapped between the new allotments and existing Lydiat Lane housing. The allotments on Chorley Hall Lane will be the next in line for attack. It makes sense, the PC will argue, to have all allotments on the edge of the village rather than have half of them taking up space near the park? This is, interestingly, a win win for the developer. If the Chorley Hall Lane allotments are moved, land is then available by the park for additional housing. If they are not moved, then the provision of land for allotments down Lydiat Lane is excessive and housing will be built on the surplus up to the railway line.

Is this all fanciful? No it is not. Cllr Keegan has already shown his intention to ride roughshod over a covenant placed on the Heyes Lane Allotments by the original donor of the land. A developer is involved and has been for months. Developers are in business to make money - ultimately, generally. The potential profit in this whole scheme is tens of millions of pounds. You do the maths. The Lydiat Lane folk are right to be worried.

The Action Group to save Heyes Lane allotments next meets at Power Engineering Consultants offices 11a London Road at 6.00 pm Monday 28 November 2011. All are welcome.

Mr Sanderson,

The wide ranging nature of your attacks, and the timing of your posts, must be a point of concern to those who support you temporarily. You should make it clear that you speak for yourself and not for the action group, or perhaps they want to associate themselves with, and the consequences of, your remarks.

You advise people to "do the maths". Not wishing to be pedantic because I dislike the expression, but it is an imported Americanism "do the math".

Equally that expression applies to the allotment waiting list, said to be 40, or almost twice the current Heyes Lane site. When the transfers plus the waiting list is considered, there is precious little room left over. Especially when one considers the stated desire of the Parish Council Chairman to set aside an area for the Primary School children to start to develop an interest in healthy eating.

Heyes Lane or Chorley Hall allotmens are a lot closer to Alderley Primary School than Lydiat Lane would be or even closer how about a bit of their school ground?.

Cllr Keegan, your most recent post speaks volumes.

Firstly, on what authority do you determine that the support offered to Mr Sanderson is 'temporary'? I suspect, given your handling of this issue to date, it is your support as Parish Councillor which is at far greater risk.

Secondly, the second sentence in your post was difficult to understand. Please would you clarify what you mean by 'the consequences of your remarks'? I'm sure Mr Sanderson and others would appreciate it if you elaborated on that remark as you would not want it to be misinterpreted, would you?

Thirdly, if you do not wish to be pendantic, then don't be! Who cares from whence the phrase originated? If Mr Sanderson wishes to Anglicise an American expression, let him. Surely you have bigger fish to fry, than correcting an opponent's semantics?

Lastly, your refusal to acknowledge and address the many valid objections posted on here by numerous Alderley residents (many of whom are not allotment holders) strikes me as a dangerous stance to take. Combined with the tone of your last post, perhaps you should consider how your position is perceived by both active and passive users of this site.

Mr Keegan,

The local primary school has a vegetable plot which is looked after by the children, teachers and parents. Over the years allotment holders have helped to dig this plot and my husband has installed an outdoor tap. I am suprised you and the chairman have not been to the school to see what healthy eating activities are already going on there.

John Sanderson is doing a fantastic job of facilitating meetings for local people to come together and discuss their concerns for the future of the alltoments. There is an abundance of support for this campagne against your proposals, now and for as long as it takes for you to realise that the people of Alderley Edge do not want our green community spaces obliterated by your bulldozers.

Lastly I have a question for you....

to quote you:

"The wide ranging nature of your attacks, and the timing of your posts, must be a point of concern to those who support you temporarily. You should make it clear that you speak for yourself and not for the action group, or perhaps they want to associate themselves with, and the consequences of, your remarks."

What "consequences" does John Sanderson face of his remarks?

Oh dear! Knee-jerk reactions and no-change claims. Fantasy bulldozers and grasping developers. Surely such a highly educated community should produce rational arguments for improving the village; or has it reached perfection?

Colin its not a knee jerk reaction, a lot of residents have been sickened by the site of "progress" over the years and redevelopement of village spaces and buildings always for "the good of the community" but always with x amount of houses or appartments added on to the plan for our local development magnates to be able to sustain their lifestyle.

For our parish council to still think this is a brilliant idea is very worrying and frankly insulting our intelligence as residents. I feel theres a bit of red herring wafting going on from certain quarters ...... Mr Keegan?

Ms Wienholt,

There are THREE schools with primary aged pupils, there is one school with Secondary aged pupils, and there are many young people, both primary and secondary aged, who leave the village for schooling. OK, AECP is sorted. Do all the others not count? Is the Parish Council not entitled to provide a health and wellbeing agenda for all pupils, even if the AECP pupils want to stick to their own facilities?

Is it an option to add a few allotment plots to the Lydiat Lane site and keep those at Heyes Lane? The 3 schools will be happy, the allotment waiting list will be reduced and we won't lose another green space.

Mr. Keegan: 'set aside an area for the Primary School children to start to develop an interest in healthy eating' or another way of bolstering your position? Disgraceful if this is the case and your comments regarding support or otherwise for John Sanderson are positively threatening in their nature.

Whilst it must be recognised that you have been given a mandate; the people of Alderley Edge DO keep putting a tick by your name, you must surely recognise that such language, from someone who is supposed to be receptive to the views of local people, is inappropriate.

Two more things: It is interesting that Mr. Keegan says the covenant will have no impact on their plans; essentially, he will get it removed or do whatever is necessary to fight his case. When a similar covenant issue was raised in relation to the park (AEPC were trying to argue that a covenant prohibited the park being used for profit), the parish council refused to accept advice from Cheshire East legal department that no such covenant existed.

Rather worryingly, they (members of AEPC) said they wouldn’t accept the advice because historically, advice given by the said department was often wrong.... Perhaps this was because it wasn’t to their liking but either way, it’s not a good state of affairs for local taxpayers.

Silvio Berlusconi stayed in office for many years, despite being an embarrassment to the majority of Italians; perhaps the people of Alderley will have to suffer a similar fate for another 3 (?) years or maybe the Localism Bill, having being recently implemented, might help with: the Right to Challenge, Right to Bid, Neighbourhood Plan and Community Right to Build (all elements of it and worth further research if you have the inclination).

Whoops, I forgot to mention that under this same, very new legislation, Councils will have ‘New General Powers of Competence’; giving them unprecedented freedom (although primarily with finances, I think) – essentially doing anything they see fit, provided they don’t break laws. Just imagine how bad things could get given all of the above and if you still in any doubt, think of George Osborne today; he thought things had already reached rock bottom.

The allotments (along with the park in 2012) will become the responsibility of the Parish Council in April next year; now is the time to act otherwise there will be no publicly owned green spaces in Alderley, just precarious green belt around it.

Why are Alderley Edge residents interested in the needs of the two private schools in the village? AEPC is not responsible to provide these to a fee paying school! Whatever next? We provide these pupils with free bus passes?
I totally support all comments made on this site and left wondering why Mr Keegan spends so much time arguing on this forum

I have posted part of Mr Keegan's interview when he was elected in May

I like doing this job and I am glad that the people of Alderley Edge have put their faith in me again."

Can I just wholeheartedly support the previous observations and comments made by John Sanderson and Clare Mcleod, and indeed all the supportive people who have realized by now that our elected Councillor Keegan is playing a dangerous game.
He appears determined to play down the true support and feelings of the residents of Alderley Edge who want to make important decisions based on 'what's good for Alderley Edge' as opposed to what's good for you know who!

As you all have guessed by now the car park scenario to replace the allotments on Heyes Lane was always a red herring from day one to throw people off the scent as to what was actually going on i.e. The land being put aside to be used for housing development, not a gigantic useless car-park, or indeed an overflow car-park for the new Health Center as some people would want you to believe it may be needed for. Just count the present no of car-park spaces if you don't believe me!

Oh and let's not forget in all this, the proposed Lydiat Lane site which has two bits of adjoining land, one for the proposed new allotments move and one for? I will let you work that one out!
John was correct this is potentially the start of a merry-go-round of land trying to be set aside for possible development. Please let's not have anymore fallacies from the Parish Council and more futile attempts to insult either either my intelligence, or indeed the good people of Alderley Edge.

No, the Lydiat Lane site is being brought in because we need a site to which the Heyes Lane holders can be transferred, and it fits the bill by being able to take the waiting list.

The proposal for the area will include green treatment, not just a tarmac area.

Cllr Keegan

The absence of any response from you to the second point in my earlier post should be interpreted how? I doubt that it means you lack an opinion.

I note with interest (as I am sure every other reader of this discussion board) how selective you are on the points you choose to respond to. You remind me of my teenage son... You appear to have mastered the dark art of Selective Listening.

You also appear to have lost interest in rallying support for your cause, if your best defence is providing horticultural support for the two private schools in the village. Are we, the residents, being naïve, believing that support for your agenda might be important to you??

Frank Keegan 28 Nov

Gosh! My knees have gone all wobbly.
Over the weeks, we have all read your comments on this story and others related. You have kept your cool and parried the blows without admitting you were wrong about anything. It was interesting to see an experienced politician perform. Now we see you rattled by a well considered theory which is obviously close to the truth. It caused you to react irrationally. You lost it.

Frank, you embarked on a difficult project. There is no point in trying to keep almost everything secret. The full truth will come out sooner or later. Why fight it? It makes you and your fellow Councillors appear cunning and conniving which is probably not deserved. If, in your discussions with your friendly developer, you have not discussed building houses on land adjacent to the AESG playing field, then say just that. Say the truth. If you have not discussed with anyone the possibility of moving the allotment holders off the Chorley Hall site, then say just that ... To ignore accusations is tantamount to admitting you cannot honestly deny them.

Thank you to Claire and Heather and others who have sprung to my defence.

Mr Sanderson, you are utterly wrong in your assertions, and single-minded in your determination not to concede that your allotment hobby could be pursued at a different location. However, the correct course of action is to follow the procedures laid down, and you have many colleagues on the allotment society who want to do just that. That is their right and I support their right to oppose the move with vigour.

Your theory about housing is completely wrong, and it is offensive. You seem to believe that you can advance statements which are offensive simply by calling them a theory. You are wrong.

The land at Heyes Lane will be on a 125 yr lease from the Council, who will hold a veto over any attempts to develop housing on that site. The land at Lydiat Lane will be on a 125 yr lease from AESG and they will retain a veto over any development other than allotments. Your "theory" is not credible.

The allotments on Chorley Hall Lane AND Beech Close have never been a consideration in any Parish Council discussions and just so you cannot misinterpret that statement, the entire Parish Council, myself included, would vigorously resist any attempt to transfer or amend the current arrangements on those two sites.

The intention of the Parish Council is to sponsor a brand new, fit-for-purpose Medical facility on the front of the site of the Festival Hall.

The remainder of the Hall will be revamped and improved to fulfil two purposes, one is improved community use at community type pricing, and also to attract premium type use at premium type prices which will sponsor community pricing.

The Parish Council believes that such a revamping will fail unless the hall has a new entrance and a new approach, which we have identified as being from Heyes Lane.

There have been discussions between myself as CEC Councillor, the Chairman of the Parish Council and various parties from CEC. Firstly, at the end of July we had the Chief Executive to visit. Secondly, in August we had the Chief Planning Officer to visit. Thirdly we had two Cabinet Members to visit, and last we will shortly entertain the head of Regeneration and Planning.

The programme in all cases is the same: our local desire to improve our local area and each time we have been encouraged to proceed. In fact there have been suggestions that Alderley Edge could be the template for other Parishes to proceed, in that we have tied various aspects into a broad plan.

The programme is : Medical Centre, Development of Hall, Provision of parking at Heyes Lane to service new hall, and also to provide the capability to address the parking problems in the village.

Residents want parking facilities near their homes; schools need parking facilities to mitigate the traffic chaos which is generated by the 3 schools. The village needs more parking facilities at reasonable prices to accommodate the workers who currently abandon their cars on the public highway, sometimes illegally, such as on the pavement at Congleton Road.

Finally, in our discussions I have always included the retention of the facility of the Trafford Road service garage. I first got involved in that some 6 years ago, when I successfully persuaded the landlord to withdraw a 3 month notice to quit, and ever since then I have maintained a desire to retain this valuable service within the village. Recently the planning application to develop housing on that site was refused and the garage was given notice to quit. I have persuaded the landlord to engage with the CEC planning department to see if there is an acceptable use of that site - in the eyes of both the landlord and the planners. So that we are not pressured, the landlord has changed the 3 month rolling notice to a 1 year notice, and during that time they will discuss the planning aspects with the Officers of CEC. I am extremely grateful to David Russell of Russell Homes firstly for not creating a derelict site some 6 years ago, and secondly for agreeing to a revised arrangement which means we can attempt to re-locate the garage facility. The fabric of the garage is in desperate need of attention but any stoppage to recreate a new garage on that site would result in a change of footfall. We need a solution which re-locates the facility whilst maintaining service. My task is to persuade the planners that it would be acceptable to use part of the HL allotments to continue to provide a valuable service within the village. There are precedents within planning law, even within our local area, of retention of facilities and preservation of jobs being an acceptable deviation from the adopted local plan.

So, there you have it Mr Sanderson, are you really going to argue that all of this must be frustrated because you want to walk 250 yds to your allotment rather than 500 yds to your new allotment? As the locally elected Unitary Councillor and a Parish Councillor, I think it is a no-brainer that the vast majority, the silent majority, should be able to enjoy a better quality of life even if the "allotment 20" are temporarily inconvenienced.

You dont seem to grasp the fact that a lot of people do not want the heyes lane site to be changed from allotments and that goes way beyond your imagined "allotment 20". Will you please begin to face facts that a fair few of your parishoners/elctors are against this idea and are suspicious of the motives.

Mr Keegan,
The last time we crossed swords it was over the subject of Waste Recycling and it was apparent to me then that despite an awful lot of bluff and bluster, you were sadly bereft of some pretty basic information concerning the value / disposal of recycled materials. This despite the fact that you were "Portfolio-Holder" (is that an Americanism?) with responsibility for the roll-out of the (then) new wheely bin system of refuse collection.

Now it seems to me that you are about to make another serious error in so far as there is obviously very strong support for retaining the Heyes Lane allotments for all of the reasons given above and, as far as I can establish, there is no good reason to develop The Festival Hall.

The Festival Hall, has been allowed to fall into a state of disrepair precisely because there is, and there has rarely been in the past, any demand for that sort of venue in Alderley Edge. The Music Festival is an obvious exception but there would have to be such an event twice-nightly to justify the sort of expense that would be required to develop the premises in the way that you envisage. Certainly it would seem that the Council-Tax payers of Alderley Edge dont wish to see their money spent on the venture and you have stated quite clearly that there is no private interest / investment intended....so how will the project be financed?

I'm reassured to learn that there are no intentions to include luxury apartments or dwellings in the Heyes Lane project, also to hear that there are no proposals to forceably take the Chorley Hall Lane Allotments (the ones by the side of a busy mainline railway) or the Beech Close Allotments (the ones in the middle of the council estate)

Alan,
Beech Close allotments are not in the middle of a council estate (we don't have a council estate in Cheshire East) and it's next to the railway line and open fields.

Jon,

I've lived in Alderley Edge / Wilmslow for nearly fifty years, the first eighteen of which were spent very happily in a Council House around the corner from Beech Close. I accept that a large part of that estate has passed into private ownership, but it was built as a council estate.

Anyway, I was simply drawing a distinction about the "aesthetics" of the Heyes Lane site as opposed to the other two sites I mentioned....I was imagining for a moment that I was a Property Developer and trying to decide which would be the most lucrative site for development. Not that there are any plans (yet) for that sort of development - can't be, Mr Keegan said so!

Anyway, if "we" have no social housing in Cheshire East, what happened to it all?

The small amount of houses/flats you mentioned now belong to Peaks & Plains Housing Trust in Macclesfield.

Frank Keegan 30 November

Cllr Keegan failed to respond to the most important part of my theory: "(Following relocation of allotments to Lydiat Lane) the most obvious next step will be to build houses on the land trapped between the new allotments and existing Lydiat Lane housing". Do you know who owns this land, Frank, and is it the same developer you have been talking to who will provide most of the resource to enable you to put your grand plan into effect?

It does seem strange that Frank Keegan spends an awful lot of time telling everyone who opposes this plan how uninformed we all are and that this is for the benefit of Alderley Edge! The reason we are so cynical is that history has proved the somewhat underhand developments that have taken place over the years! You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours comes to mind!
As all good politicians taking the 5th amendment is a great way of disguising the truth!

Frank, you have had 3 weeks to deny my accusation about development at Lydiat Lane, posted 30 November. You cannot deny the truth and that is to your credit. Merry Christmas