Gearing up for 20mph limit in village centre

3e69f51c317241330bfe93acd60392d1

Following concerns from residents about high-performance cars and the manner in which some of them are being driven the Council is considering introducing a 20mph speed limit through the village centre.

Last year Councillor Craig Browne asked for a traffic assessment to be carried out which involved Automatic Traffic Counters (ATCs) being positioned at three locations on London Road for a seven-day period.

The results, which have now been published in the Stage 1 Feasibility Report, show that 85% of all vehicles were travelling at or below 25mph outside the former RBS and 23mph at the pelican crossing near the junction with Stevens Street, but 34mph at the third data collection point (by the de Trafford Arms). 37.2% of vehicles were exceeding 30mph at this location.

The report recommends that a 20mph zone should be implemented on London Road from the junction with Ryleys Lane to the junction with Macclesfield Road using signs on both sides of London Road along with painting 20mph on the road to highlight the start and exit points of the 20mph zone.

Councillor Craig Browne explained "The diversity of road users through the village (cyclists, emergency vehicles, buses etc) complicates the installation of physical speed control measures.

"Speed humps or carriageway narrowing measures were not considered to be practical options; however, the report does recommend that consideration should be given to the introduction of other physical infrastructure such as speed cushions."

At a meeting at the beginning of July, attended by representatives from Cheshire East Highways, Cheshire East Council's Anti-Social Behaviour Team, Cheshire Police and Alderley Edge Parish Council, there was broad support for the proposals, but with a modification that the zone should be extended at each end of the village to include Alderley Edge School for Girls and the junction with Beechfield Road on Congleton Road.

Craig added "A Stage 2 report will now be produced showing detailed design options, which will then be subject to a round of public consultation. This next stage in the process is estimated to take between three to six months.

"I would like to thank all the agencies for supporting me to make progress with this issue; in the meantime Cheshire Police will continue to monitor driver behaviour in the area."

What do think about the proposal to introduce a 20mph limit on this stretch of London Road? Will it resolve the problem? Share your views via the comment box below.

Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement

Comments

Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add your thoughts below.

Andy Brown
Tuesday 21st July 2020 at 1:05 pm
Current speed limit is 30 mph. Highest recorded speed is 98 mph.

I don't think they take much notice of what the limit is.
Marc Asquith
Tuesday 21st July 2020 at 3:33 pm
Without Police enforcement this will be a waste of time, money and effort. The speeding problem is not in the centre of the village - where the data shows that motorists are well below the 30 mph limit already, it's by the De Trafford, where vehicles are entering or exiting the village. That is already a 30 zone and the numbers show that 37.5% of vehicles ignore that.

There is no merit nor need to put in a speed limit where there is already broad compliance with the existing limit - that is just acting in the 'something must be done' mode.

Without enforcement, none of this stuff makes any difference. Perhaps a speed camera could be installed somewhere close to the De Trafford ?
Mike Dudley-Jones
Wednesday 22nd July 2020 at 7:13 am
I have to take exception to Marc Asquith's (from Chelford) belief that the first of a number of measures to make our Village safer will be 'a complete waste of time'! The data shows that 15 out of every one hundred cars are travelling over 25 mph! Some at huge speeds!
Try walking from the de Trafford to the railway bridge (or back again) and watch how often a car will scorch its way through the Village at a terrifying speed. It makes you think that people are killed by the exception - not by the rule!
A 20 mph limit through our Village will help to remind people that this is an area that requires very special care. Other measures will follow and these combined with the continued efforts of Cheshire Police to reduce the impact of outside joy riders, who have chosen Alderley Edge as their 'playground', will make a difference.

It all takes time and I know how frustrating this can be. But please be assured that progress is being made. Shouting that 'it's a complete waste of time' is not helpful!
Andy Brown
Wednesday 22nd July 2020 at 10:32 am
A dispersal order should be in place for teenagers and adults loitering with phones trying to capture these cars. This encourages the dangerous driving we are seeing and hearing with those noisy exhausts.
Jon Williams
Wednesday 22nd July 2020 at 3:58 pm
"A Dispersal Order means that the Police can ask a group of two or. more people to leave the dispersal area if they are doing anything. wrong, or if they believe that they may or are likely to cause a. nuisance to someone else. • The Police may ask you to leave the area and not return to it."

I don't think so !
Fiona Doorbar
Wednesday 22nd July 2020 at 5:26 pm
There wasn’t any police present this weekend! So I wouldn’t class their efforts as ‘continued’
When I complained about the racket on Sunday afternoon I was informed that officers were busy doing other things!!
Duncan Herald
Thursday 23rd July 2020 at 11:18 am
Just a small suggestion; as traffic leaves the village towards/ past the De Trafford, there is a tendancy to speed up a little.
Is that because most drivers don't expect the 40 mph limit to not apply for a significand distance after the De Trafford?
Just a suggestion; bring the 40 mph limit nearer to the village and/or apply the postulated
20 mph limit beyond the De Trafford?
Fiona Doorbar
Friday 24th July 2020 at 4:28 am
The current 30 limit isn’t enforced ! I want to know how lowering the limit is going to make a difference if not enforced??!! Paint on roads will not prevent speeding. It needs speed calming measures I.e cushions or narrowing or functioning penalty cameras at 2 or 3 positions on the approach, in and exit of the village. Sadly the problem will be moved elsewhere but at least the most used road (London Ed) will be safer for village users
Craig Browne
Friday 24th July 2020 at 11:57 am
Dear all,

Thank you for your comments on the Stage 1, following which I would just like to briefly clarify a few concerns that have been raised.

Firstly, I wholly agree that introducing a new speed limit without physical infrastructure (traffic calming) would not be effective. For this reason, the report proposes the introduction of a new 20mph zone with associated traffic calming, which will be self-enforcing. Various options are still being considered; however, given the range of road users, at this stage speed cushions are being recommended as the preferred option.

The report was welcomed by a multi-agency group comprising representatives of Cheshire Police, Cheshire East Highways, Cheshire East Anti-Social Behaviour Team and Alderley Edge Parish Council. The group indicated their support, but with a recommendation that the scope of the proposed 20mph zone be extended to the junction with Brook Lane at the northern end of the village and the junction with Beechfield Road at the southern end.

There will be full public consultation on the detailed designs which will be contained within the Stage 2 report to be produced over the next few months.

Kind regards,
Craig
Vince Chadwick
Friday 24th July 2020 at 2:50 pm
But Craig, 'traffic calming' with 'cushions' (doesn't it all sound very soft and cosy?) is simply ignored by the Chelsea Tractors that make up most of Alderley's traffic, whereas family cars suffer suspension and tyre damage even if they negotiate them very slowly. They are also very bad news for ambulances with seriously injured patients on board.

There are more imaginative ways of slowing traffic in built up areas. Take a look at how the Dutch do it.

http://www.youthforroadsafety.org/news-blog/news-blog-item/t/the_dutch_woonerf_an_example_of_safe_road_spaces#:~:text=A%20cleverly%20integrated%20blend%20of,residential%20areas%20across%20the%20country.&text=Firstly%2C%20traffic%20speeds%20are%20forced,%22%2C%20typically%20well%20below%2012mph.
Alan Brough
Friday 24th July 2020 at 9:54 pm
The 20 mph limit will be a great move forward.

If the right-thinking folk observe the 20 Mph rule, the wrong-thinking folk won’t be able to speed.

Alderley Village will be a slow moving procession and the show-offs will move elsewhere to gain their pathetic, self gratifying adulation.
Duncan Herald
Sunday 26th July 2020 at 10:02 am
Hi Vince,
thanks for the link to Dutch methods; I did read it.
Am I wrong or is it similar to that which was tried in the centre of Poynton, a few years back?
And did not that Poynton effort have to be 'modified', as it did not really work?
I was an A.E. Parish Council member back then; we had a good hard look at the Poynton result and presentations and examples from London. Rightly or wrongly, we decided not to 'go for it' in Alderley Edge.
What do you think?
Vince Chadwick
Sunday 26th July 2020 at 4:02 pm
I think the Poynton set-up was less that successful because it was implemented on a cross roads between a very busy road and a moderately busy road. There was confusion over who had right of way, so everything ground to a halt and queues built up in all directions.

An implementation in Alderley should not suffer that effect as it would be on a single short length of by-passed straight road between the railway bridge and the De Trafford junction.
Alan Brough
Sunday 26th July 2020 at 7:36 pm
The Poynton scheme was a “Shared Space” system which removes any form of priority and relies on the discretion of users... not a good idea because all users have a different approach to the rights and wrongs of negotiating the system.

The Dutch system provides an absolute right of way for motorists on roads and an absolute right of way for cyclists on cycle-ways and an absolute right of way for pedestrians on footpaths. All three work well alongside each other although there is sometimes a frantic ringing of bells when a pedestrian wanders unwittingly into a cycle- way.
The system works wonderfully, but the initial investment is huge and generally beyond the thinking-scope of a 5 year orientated political party.
Vince Chadwick
Monday 27th July 2020 at 7:59 am
"The system works wonderfully, but the initial investment is huge and generally beyond the thinking-scope of a 5 year orientated political party".

So true, and something that has often robbed UK infrastructure of the long term investment it really needs. Somehow they seem to manage these things better in mainland Europe. Just saying....
Mark Eden
Monday 27th July 2020 at 12:57 pm
The problem stretches way beyond the village as we all know. These high performance cars slow down so the petrolhead lot can take their photos. The cars then speed up the hill towards Nether Alderley , past the NA Primary school and down to the bypass where they scream down this road and then back to the village again to give us another dose of misery. There is a speed camera outside Astra Zeneca which I am not sure works but could be relocated onto the bypass. However, speed cushions up and down the hill from De Trafford would be a good start. I'm not against people who want to drive these cars ( as building them creates jobs, supply chain etc) but am against some of the selfish idiots who drive recklessly. They are also incredibly arrogant. The black Lambo was fully parked on the pavement the other Sunday.
Giles Geddes
Monday 27th July 2020 at 12:57 pm
As others mention - a limit is worthless unless rigourlosly enforced. Those exceeding the limit will still do so - just by 10mph more. Speed will only be brought down by a change to the layout of the road (a la Poynton or traffic calming bumps etc).

Some time ago somebody mentioned diagonal parking bays along the Bubbleroom side of the road. This would reduce the width of the carriageway (slowing drivers) and increase parking capacity.

Is this still worth considering. If it can be achieved without reducing the width of the existing pavement I assume that is?
Duncan Herald
Tuesday 28th July 2020 at 10:33 am
Hi Giles,
a goodly while ago, in the then Parish Council, I brouht up the possibility of diagonal parking on London Road (its not callled diagonal, but I've long forgotten the actual term).
So as to not make the road too narrow, it would have meant narrowing the pavement.
That is expensive plus the ground under the pavement is stuffed with pipes, cables etc.
So we had to give up on the idea.
You could always re-visit the idea of course?
Giles Geddes
Tuesday 28th July 2020 at 11:34 am
Hi Duncan,

Thanks for your reply. It did sound like a good idea. Shame it’s an expensive one!

Giles.
Jon Williams
Tuesday 28th July 2020 at 12:25 pm
Pedestrian zone only is needed from Waitrose up to the De Trafford, after all, we do have a By-Pass.

Pedestrian zones are areas of a city or town reserved for pedestrian-only use and in which most or all automobile traffic is prohibited. Converting a street or an area to pedestrian-only use is called pedestrianisation. Pedestrianisation usually aims to provide better accessibility and mobility for pedestrians, to enhance the amount of shopping and other business activities in the area and/or to improve the attractiveness of the local environment in terms of aesthetics, air pollution, noise and crashes involving motor vehicle with pedestrians.
Pedestrianisation schemes are often associated with significant drops in local air and noise pollution, accidents, and frequently with increased retail turnover and increased
property values locally. A car-free development generally implies a large scale pedestrianised area that relies on modes of transport other than the car.
Vin Sumner
Tuesday 28th July 2020 at 4:35 pm
Agree with Jon , lets be radical and improve people's health ... close London Road to traffic
Stephen Justice
Tuesday 28th July 2020 at 5:06 pm
Oh dear, what a load of petty minded,prejudiced, self oriented comments "we" make here!

We don't want a speed limit but nor do we want speed bumps.

We don't like louder - but legal - exhausts or "Chelsea Tractors" but then again we don't think there's a problem anyway, even though fifteen of every hundred vehicles is driven faster than 25mph...

We don't want any traffic at all along London Road and nor do we want perfectly legal small groups of people taking photographs.

I find that all rather distasteful and unhelpful and I want to say thank you to Craig Brown for his usual circumspect and conciliatory approach to addressing the full and widely ranging requirements that "we" are demanding.

"We" may not like it, but cars - often more powerful and exotic in a wealthy locality - are here to stay and the solution is surely a range of measures both to encourage safe and considerate driving and if at all practical to prevent bad driving from being possible.
Barbara Hughson
Wednesday 29th July 2020 at 10:20 am
I drive through the village several times a week but always during the day and, to be honest, reaching 30mph is an exception. I don't know if this has been discussed before, but why not obvious and fully operational speed cameras? Wouldn't that be simpler, and soon pay for itself if the problem's so bad?
Graham Nicholson
Wednesday 29th July 2020 at 3:50 pm
If we were to close the road from Waitrose up to the De Trafford Arms, as some have suggested, all the through-traffic to Macclesfield,Nether Alderley and Mottram/ Prestbury would go via Hayes Lane and up Trafford Road - which is where I happen to live! Sorry, folks, the road is unsuitable for that volume of traffic and the residents would be incandescent!
Paul Williams
Wednesday 29th July 2020 at 8:45 pm
"The data shows that 15 out of every one hundred cars are travelling over 25 mph! Some at huge speeds!"

Why is 25mph the arbitrary figure used in the study?
How many of those 15% are driving perfectly legally, within the 30mph speed limit?
Is it someone just trying to manipulate the figures to make the situation look worse than it is?

I'm all for going after the idiots who have total disregard for the village speed limits but why is it the innocent motorist who suffers the consequences?
As stated previously, traffic calming ramps affect all our cars suspensions and tyres, and a lower speed limit will mean more people will be speeding.
Just enforcing the 30mph limit properly is the answer.
Vince Chadwick
Wednesday 29th July 2020 at 9:22 pm
Graham, I agree. Road closure would result in traffic flooding the village side roads.

I'm for the Dutch solution I referred to earlier - do the job properly, not the usual half-cock short-term unimaginative but cheap and deeply flawed 'solution'.

Bite the bullet. Do it 'right'.
Marc Asquith
Saturday 1st August 2020 at 5:49 pm
I have just returned to this story. I am amused by Mike Dudley Jones' response to my own posting. I voted for Mike - and his team - I particularly liked the non-partisan, non-party political approach that they espoused.

Here we are a few years down the line and I find myself reminded of George Orwell and Animal Farm.

“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

Mike wrote: "I have to take exception to Marc Asquith's (from Chelford)"

You know, I have lived in Alderley for much of my adult life, I served as the County Councillor for the Alderley Division from 2001 to 2009. I took over from Margaret Melrose and took the By-pass from a theoretical priority through Public Inquiry and onto the start of construction. I have been a School Governor at Alderley Primary School (ACEPS) continuously since 1999. My oldest child, Maria, attended ACEPS for 3 years and my young twins have completed their Reception year at ACEPS and are just about to enter Year 1 of the school. We shop in Alderley on a daily basis. I continue to rent property in the heart of the village, albeit just a garage, and legally I could stand for election to the Alderley Parish Council.

But, just because, soon after my twins were born just over 5 years ago, my family became too big to stay in the 2 up 2 down mid terrace house across the road from Mike and we moved to a 6 bed house in Chelford for very much the same money whereas a 6 bed house in the heart of Alderley village is just a tads outside my budget, suddenly in responding to my comments I have become: "Marc Asquith (from Chelford)"

If that ain't petty party political point scoring - what is ?

Let me remind Mike that at various meetings, Nether Alderley - which is in my CEC Ward - have complained that the boy racers who blight Alderley, also blight Nether Alderley racing up and down the old A34. It is in my own ward's interest that the super-car problem that most people see in the centre of the village, is fixed.

Putting a 20mph limit in an area where the stats show that most motorists ( 85% ) already drive at 25mph or below. The proportion of the remaining 15% who stay below 30mph is unspecified but the number that exceed 30 mph must be a very small %. Putting in a 20mph zone to "deal" with that small % is completely disproportionate. And that assumes that putting in a speed limit will have any effect whatsoever. These people are already ignoring the 30mph limit - why will they, without enforcement, comply with a 20 mph limit ?

The problem the stats identify is that south of the De Trafford, speeds increase significantly - and if you look carefully - the Parish Boundary is only a few hundred yards beyond the De Trafford at Beechfield Road. South from there is my ward and Nether Alderley Parish. It is that area that needs attention so that motorists entering Alderley Village are already down below the 30 mph limit and driving calmly and quietly.

In my one previous term as a CEC Councillor I oversaw the installation of the average speed cameras on the Cat and Fiddle Route. These are sophisticated cameras that can check the average speed between any two of the cameras on the route - this may be one solution to the problem with average speed cameras at, for instance, the bottom of the bypass, and the Merlin Pub, with intermediate cameras positioned along the route to pick up cars joining, for instance, from Macclesfield Road and Chorley Hall Lane.

Alternatively a simple GATSO camera facing both ways by the De Trafford would at least ensure that cars entering the village would be below the 30 mph limit.

During my time as a Cheshire County Councillor, I spent a lot of time learning about speed limits and highways matters. I saw speed limits installed in large parts of my Division, the Pedestrian Crossing from the Park car park to the top of Church Lane is my doing. Had Cheshire County Council continued - we had planned an overall parking review in the village to commence about 1 year after the bypass had been opened. We were very much on the case and I was centrally involved. There is an aphorism that "to every complex problem, there is a simple solution, obvious to all with common sense, that is wrong" and that is borne out here by suggestions of pedestrianising London Road ( did anyone see what happened to Grove Street in Wilmslow when that was done all those years ago ? ) and other suggestions. The problem requires a careful and considered solution, not a blunderbuss approach such as is proposed with a 20 mph speed limit.

This is playing politics, I do not really believe that this proposal will get through the Council. So it is a great way for Mike to pretend that the PC are doing something - when in truth they know the reality.

I am very happy to work with Craig to find a solution that will get through Council and will achieve the desired outcome for all of us - calm traffic movements down the old A34 and through the village.

And so once again: “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

Are we playing point scoring politics - or are we trying to fix the problem ?
Kareem Masdoon
Sunday 2nd August 2020 at 8:15 am
The Independents were voted in on a resounding victory in Alderley Edge on their promise to preserve Heyes Lane allotments as a green growing space for villagers. Having helped my pal out on his allotment once or twice and enjoying the wonderful produce given to us this week I do hope the rumours buzzing about the allotments being split up in the village to make way for a small car park on Heyes Lane are NOT true as it might make our current PC look a little hypocritical....
Geoff Hall
Sunday 2nd August 2020 at 3:32 pm
Kareem Masdoon, I’m no longer on the Council, and I do not know where the “rumours” you refer to come from, but I know that they are completely untrue.
Kind regards
Geoff Hall
Chris Jones
Sunday 2nd August 2020 at 8:10 pm
There is one fundamental problem to sorting this mess out as usual. Cheshire Police not doing there job.
If there is a speeding problem in the village then it’s a danger to life and they should act, and we should have a presence.
Personally I don’t think speed is the biggest problem. It’s the hideous racket every weekend. Again Cheshire Police. The legal noise level is 82decibels of which a BUSY high street will produce 80. Forces apparently enforce 90 for whatever reason, in Alderley it may as well be a 1090.
The thing to do do if you are not happy is phone Cheshire Police ( and if you don’t lose the will to live waiting to speak to someone) report your complaint, take a job and collar number and inform them that you will be in touch with your MP In the morning if nothing is done. But you must follow up.
Stewart Dyer
Tuesday 4th August 2020 at 5:14 pm
Good advice thanks Chris. Every weekend we are subjected to high speed vehicles with screaming engines, racing up and down the bypass and other roads. The enjoyment of our gardens, parks and village is being destroyed by these selfish and inconsiderate morons.
Kareem Masdoon
Friday 7th August 2020 at 8:04 pm
Geoff Hall, thanks for the response and sorry I am a bit late chiming in.
Re the allotments just one question if the PC are so committed to Heyes Lane allotments why of the 8 documents on their website 3 of them are plans of the sites and 5 of the documents are explaining why the PC have complete control of the Heyes Lane site. Iam sure the stock response from our current PC is that they relate to the former Conservative Parish Council but one wonders after nigh on 5 years in power they have not stated THEIR position re the future of the allotments. I appreciate you have now stepped down Geoff but if any of your esteemed former PC colleagues are reading this perhaps they may respond. It has been hot this week but the atmosphere down with the planters and diggers is febrile at the moment.

Add Your Comment

Share what you think of this story. In order to post a comment click here to sign in or register to become a member (it's free and will only take one minute).