Have your say – by voting in the European elections

European elections

More than five million people across North West England have the opportunity to vote in European Parliament elections to select the region's eight Members of the European Parliament (MEPs).

The North West European Elections take place across the region on Thursday 23rd May and the count of those ballot papers will take place on Sunday 26th May in Macclesfield, with the declaration taking place in Manchester on Sunday 26th May, after polls close across Europe.

A full list of candidates for the European Parliament Elections is available online via the Cheshire East Council website

Kath O'Dwyer, Cheshire East Council's Local Returning Officer for the European elections in the borough, said: "It is important for the vigour and strength of our democracy that residents engage with the democratic process and that people, who are eligible, go out and vote on polling day and have their say.

"If you don't vote, you don't have a voice. So I would urge every registered voter to take the time to vote and be heard."

The European Parliament Elections are run using a form of proportional representation. Voters have one vote only and this can be cast for either a political party or an individual candidate. Each political party puts forward a list of candidates for the North West and the number of MEPs that are elected will depend on the overall share of the vote that a party or individual candidate receives in the region.

MEPs represent the whole of the North West region – so everybody who is eligible to vote in the region will be voting for the same list of parties and candidates.

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Comments

Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add your thoughts below.

Jon Williams
Sunday 19th May 2019 at 12:21 pm
vote Brexit Party
Tony Haluradivth
Sunday 19th May 2019 at 12:35 pm
I think a lot of us are Jon. Plus my 18 year old grand daughter is also voting Brexit party with her cherished first vote. Glad to see it is not just the "old and stale" as we have been derided by Remainers who are sticking 2 fingers up at EU corruption
Bob Bracegirdle
Tuesday 21st May 2019 at 6:08 pm
What EU corruption? Any evidence? Their efforts have regenerated many areas of our country and what's more avoided war for the first time ever in Western Europe. Workers rights etc etc.

And don't mention immigration - any problems we have are of our own making. We always had the right to refuse entry just like we always had the right to retain blue passports.

Be careful what you wish for.
Gillian Martin
Tuesday 21st May 2019 at 6:54 pm
Lisa - Many thanks for providing links to the full list of candidates. However, how did you let these two blatant campaigners air their views on a public website (however foolish it makes them look)? Is there no requirement for bias-free content, or at least some indication of balance or declaration of interest as an advertiser?
John Clegg
Tuesday 21st May 2019 at 7:48 pm
So, Tony, you're still listening to the lies and conning?
That's a pity - now that we have a 2nd chance to stop this nonsense, we should all be putting brexit out of its misery.
Lisa Reeves
Tuesday 21st May 2019 at 8:03 pm
Gillian

These are comments posted by readers and their opinion.

If you, or anyone else, wants to submit a comment saying 'don’t vote Brexit’ then they can do so. Or any other opinion they have.

Comments are published as submitted, provided they are posted in their real name with a valid email address.

So how I am I supposed to balance them? There are no comments submitted to this article that I have not published.

If there were and I tried to balance them then this would be selective and I would be having an influence.

Surely publishing comments as they are submitted is being unbiased.

Lisa
Tony Haluradivth
Wednesday 22nd May 2019 at 6:34 am
I am not a candidate, am flattered really but think it hilarious. Brexit Party candidates are clearly named on their website and Lisa is quite right. I thought it was Leavers who were thick and ignorant it is you who looks foolish Gillian ( with your wild suppositions) John Clegg perhaps you know more than ALL the political experts tell me when this second referendum is? Do you think that is what the vote is tomorrow?? If so then you are truly ignorant . Tomorrow is the EU elections (i.e voting for our MEPs) Bob Bracegirdle it was NATO which has prevented war in Europe, NATO are entirely seperate from the EU. The EU record in the former Yugoslavia is lamentable they fomented unrest in Slovenia egged on by Germany and caused many problems in that region so much so that the EU came in for direct criticism in Helsinki in the early 2000's (for their meddling) in a detailed report on the Balkan unrest. Corruption? They have not had a signed off audit of their accounts for years. Read about the appointment by Juncker oh Martin Selmayr (his gauleiter) this was nepotism not free and fair elections.
John Clegg
Wednesday 22nd May 2019 at 2:27 pm
So, Tony, you have nothing substantive which supports brexit, other than 2 fingers up at possible EU corruption. An example would do.
Mind you, you're not on your own: brexit voters and politicians can't tell us what the "better than our current deal" upsides are.
And our govt has really stood up for its citizens, hasn't it? Er, no. Leaving the EU gives us fewer protections in many areas - employment protections, food standards, etc...
And still don't bang on about the lie about accounts not being signed-off: they've been signed off every year since 2007, with supporting notes about "extraordinary" (I think...) payments being made. Mind you, this happens in most company accounts: notes are made to support and qualify all sorts of payments or errors.
Here you go, Tony, try a bit of fact: https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/
Oh, and look! The accounts were largely error-free in recent years, according to Fullfact in 2017.
But once someone is convinced they're right, no amount of facts will change their view.
Which is just ridiculous.
Tony Haluradivth
Wednesday 22nd May 2019 at 8:13 pm
Here is another one
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/the-volkswagen-diesel-scandal-was-driven-by-carbon-obsession/.
pure criminal fraud sided and abetted by the EU. Can you in your blind adulation for the EU project tell us what is so great about staying in an organisation which started as a sensible trading bloc and is now intent on Empire building and becoming a bloated supranational organisation. The EU is NOT the same EEC I voted to join in 1975. We were misled , however Brexit or no Brexit all Empires tumble and fail eventually . EU scepticism is at an all time in Europe itself. (Oh and John have you worked out yet what we are voting for tomorrow? We will see if votes cast put a stop to Brexit I think if I was a betting man I would not touch "the horse" you are backing with an EU flagpole ;)
Paul Mcwilliam
Wednesday 22nd May 2019 at 8:42 pm
Any chance you can add a like button to the comments section. All of this is quite entertaining. We can vote on the comments we 'like'.
John Clegg
Wednesday 22nd May 2019 at 9:01 pm
You still haven't talked up the actual positives of brexit - but then no-one has yet. Because there aren't any.

And just at the moment, your rhetoric doesn't help - "bloated this, supra-national that" - so I take it that you're not a fan. I'm a bit surprised you haven't talked about the Bilderberg group or the Illuminati, if we're getting all needle-y.

I don't have blind adulation for the EU - how can you even construe that from what I've written so far? - but I don't see any upside in leaving, and especially without a deal.
More importantly, neither do our supposed betters, which is why it hasn't happened yet.
The various components of the deal cannot to exist in the same universe, and the future of our economy is threatened again (not project fear or any of that nonsense, but actual forecasts from all sides including rees-mogg's pet economist) so soon after not properly recovering from the last bout of austerity inflicted on us, plus it was always supposed to be better than what we had now. And in 2016 no-one talked about minor potential annoyanceslike international driving permits, and possible visas - just for a holiday.
We have vetoes against any major fears - political integration, adoption of the euro, an EU army (not actually a bad idea when you bother actually thinking about it {hint: they probably won't be forced to wear German uniforms from WW2}) - so much so that our current position could be described not as Norway+, or Canada+, but Germany++.
If the EU constitution was ever changed so that our vetoes became invalid (highly unlikely - all EU28 incl UK would have to vote that way - that's how the (un-)democratic way the EU works), then I would certainly be looking to get out of Europe properly.
Plus Europe is a handy place to go on holz.
And they have cracking wine and food.
And most of the people seem to be quite nice.
John Clegg
Thursday 23rd May 2019 at 10:20 am
Paul, it is entertaining. Sort of...
But there is dis-information and lying which distorts people's knowledge and reinforces their long-held ignorance or "mis-knowledge" (is that even a word...?) of what the EU is and does, and just recycles easily-disprovable myths.
When people pop up on the telly and radio, or have well-paid opinion pieces in newspapers, we should really be able to trust what they say. But we can't.
I don't love the EU: but we have as easily a chance of maintaining a decent economy while staying within a trading bloc - and with all our vetoes in place - than we do outside it.
I don't see the tories or labour looking out for us individually, either.
Richard Downs
Thursday 23rd May 2019 at 10:36 am
John, this discussion from Daniel Hannan at the Oxford Union talks to the positives of Brexit : https://youtu.be/rJcuKfcxo9w
John Clegg
Thursday 23rd May 2019 at 11:37 am
What, Richard? What, from 2016, is in there that is valid today? Everything has moved on. And so should our understanding.
I'm worried that you'll be doing the bent bananas one next...

There's nothing of substance. Again.

Regulation: he's talking airily, at best. If we leave the EU, the freedoms he's alluding to, apply to those who can benefit from lighter regulation. Remember where that got us?

EU share of trade with the world is down from 38% in mid '70s to about 17% in 2016, according to li'l Danny (I've yet to fact-check it all...) but it's massaging figures, heralded as a failure. In the mid '70s, India, China, Russia, etc, were not buying as much stuff as they are now.

Signing trade deals independent of the EU? Why would any one want to set-up a trade deal with 3% of world GDP when they already have one with 22%
John Clegg
Thursday 23rd May 2019 at 11:43 am
And here's a reminder of what the "hated", "corrupt" EU-SSR have done for the UK, the b*st*rds:
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/what-has-the-eu-ever-done-for-us-well-tell-you/11/12/

Remember May "promising" £100 million to 10 marginal areas if their representatives supported her "deal"? It's kind of insignificant when compared to what the EU forces back into (mostly) poverty struck areas - which the UK can't divert elsewhere.

Remember the UK refusing several million £s from the EU to help fund food-banks in 2016-17? No? Because none of the pro-brexit media didn't want you to know about it.
Tony Haluradivth
Friday 24th May 2019 at 4:58 pm
John clegg there were plenty of lies cast about by the hardline Remainers too. We were told that the pound would be on a par or lower than the Euro within 1 year of the vote. Carney and Osborne predicted that the Economy would crash immediately (it didn't) if we voted Leave on June 23rd 2016 (all lies and bluster I am afraid.) The problem is that the top brass in the EU don't and wont listen . (Juncker, Selmayr, Barnier , Verhofstadt 'et al' they share the same bloody mindedness and intrasigence as Theresa May an well look what has happened to her). I would be happy to stay in a reformed looser EU . The Euro has been an unmitigated disaster for Southern nations *pushed by Jacques Delors and the corrupt Mitterand, Chirac and Helmut Kohl of Germany ( read about the various scandals and corruption attached to all 3 it is all in the public domain). Mrs Thatcher was quite right to "handbag" this trio. It is high time for reform. Go on you tell me what is so wonderful about a fully integrated Europe with Brussels eventually setting our tax bands and us joining the Euro because that is all on the "to do" list if we remain a member. I am keeping my powder dry now John until Monday when we will see what the UK voters message ref. the EU will be. Voter turnout was high I gather so it now remains to be seen if you have the minority view but in any case I say "vive la difference". TTFN ;))
John Clegg
Saturday 25th May 2019 at 9:15 am
"TTFN"? Are you off without giving everyone the benefit of your wisdom as to naming just a handful of tangible and substantial benefits for brexit? Or even one?
(Clue: there aren't any.)
But we get this all the time from the empty arguments for brexit - some sort of mis-placed retaliation backed up by no substance.
What was sold as "golden futures" and "sunlit uplands" and "better than what we currently have" has evaporated.
It's now...
No Deal;
WTO terms;
probable damage to the economy for a generation or 30 years (depending on which picture painted by Patrick Minton, jacob rees-mogg's fave economist - that and he predicted irreparable damage to U.K. farming.
So, again, and patiently, what benefits are there?

There may have been lies from both side but there was even worse - massive election fraud, bigger lies, etc - so much so that one of the supporters, Aron Banks, has so been charged, with £8 million un-accounted for in Leave.UK's coffers (I think it was them - I'll check and get back).

The governor of the BoE certainly did warn about economic chaos - and was branded a traitor, and for getting involved - but the day after the brexit vote (it might have been by Monday following...), he'd cut interest rates by another 0.25% to 0.25%, and made available £250 billion for liquidity funding, mainly for banks, and continuation of QE. And the pound collapsed against the euro from about 1.29€ to 1.12€. so you didn't notice that.

And remember that the EU don't have to do anything else: this is the UK's mess. There was a Withdrawal Agreement, too hastily cobbled together and presented and agreed (that word again - it wasn't inflicted on the UK) so that May could look decisive and like Thatcher 2.0, I expect. No-one on either side knows why the WA happened so quickly.

And do keep up, Tony. I pointed out earlier - but you've obviously ignored it because it didn't fit your failing agenda - that we have vetoes written into the EU constitution which hold our current position, and which prevent:
Euro currency integration;
Further political EU integration;
EU army (altho' co-operating with armies in our neighbourhood isn't a bad idea, in the face of US uni-lateralism policy-wise, declining influence of the UN and NATO).

And it's nice to see you stick up for the southern EU states by wanting to cause more damage to the EU economy. Very worthy..

So hurry back with your pro-brexit benefits (there aren't any), and tell us why you and your brexiters wish harm on the UK economy, when we know that staying as we are at least guarantees where we are with some predictability.
Jon Williams
Saturday 25th May 2019 at 10:02 am
I can think of some reasons to leave:
Advantages of leaving the EU


We can stop the deliberate collapse of Sterling and the poverty planned for us by the EU.



Stop the waste on the EU's control structures in Britain, particularly its 8,500 quangos costing £167 billion annually – the biggest single treasury expenditure.



Abolish the EU’s Common Purpose control organisation and its 30,000 UK “leaders”.


Stop paying £100 billion pa implementing EU regulations


Stop losing £35 billion annually trading with the EU


Throw out the EU quangos in the NHS costing £50 billion pa.



-which will put our budget into massive surplus. (The EU wastes ¼ of our economy)



Let the poor finally participate in the economy. The EU has just denied them the biggest boom in history. If we had taken back our money the EU has forcibly wasted in Britain each year, we could have used it to quadruple wages for the poor instead.


Abolish income tax for those on under £25,000pa, with automatic RPI increase each year.



Abolish the EU’s VAT, and its 120,000 regulations, returning freedom to business and people.



Stop 3 million EU immigrants arriving a year – put our old border controls back.


Stop the hundreds of EU Frankfurt School subversion techniques. Including:


Restore the family which the EU is busy destroying. Reverse the trend to single mothers.



Throw out our corrupt, EU appointed judges, bring justice back to our now rotten courts.



Abolish the secret family courts that snatch 4,500 attractive children annually from good families for forced adoption. (Frankfurt School social engineering)



Stop the EU’s subversion of the NHS with continual change and other Frankfurt techniques.


Rebuild our armed forces, which the EU has been deliberately destroying.


Throw out the corrupt, unchristian leaders of the Church of England.



Throw out our corrupt top politicians, all of whom are in the pay of the EU.



Strengthen the British Constitution, take power back from government by submitting Bills to public ballot annually before Royal Assent.



We will then experience unparalled freedom, democracy and prosperity in Britain, still the world’s fifth largest economy among its 205 nations.
Tony Haluradivth
Saturday 25th May 2019 at 12:48 pm
Well said Jon. Mr Clegg wont come back and respond to you and tell us what the advantages are of staying in an ever expanding, more closely integrated,
never to be reformed EU. He is a zealot as he clearly has not said once it needs reforming as many mild Remainers also believe. I am not a fanatical Brexiteer either and I was happy to be part of the EEC before the mess that was Maastricht. Mr Clegg can look up my comments on this very site in 2016 to see what I (still) consider the failings of the EU, I cannot be bothered to repeat them again as he is clearly frothing with anger. We can agree to disagree is my motto. I do hope the results tomorrow dont leave with a little ("oeuf sur son visage" ;))
John Clegg
Saturday 25th May 2019 at 3:54 pm
Oh, jeez, Jon and Tony, where to start?
Zealot? I'm not it's greatest fan, but I am against lies, conning, and lazily re-posting stuff from "proper fact-checked independent organizations" such as the telegraph and euexit.com. This just confirms your bias.
I will work tirelessly to prevent lies distorting facts.

We have gone from laughable and ignorable waffle about bent bananas to a whole industry in demonizing the EU.

At what point does the truth and facts kick in? When do we start looking at all the good that the EU does? Chlorinated chicken like the US wants to sell us, just because it's cheaper? Fruit and veg from new sources, where soil fertilization and handling regs are a lot less strict than what the EU recommends?

A few clicks away, you can look at the half-truths and non-facts behind much of this.
For the same few clicks, you can look at proper facts.

There is no deliberate collapse of sterling - unless it is being shorted by major investment players - and that has nothing to do with the EU.

Common Purpose? It's a UK-based charity which falls under the not-talked about project fear nonsense that that doesn't emanate from brexit quarters - because there's nothing to fear and it's all looking good.
And while we're here, put Frankfurt School ... into this category. And the Bilderburgs, and the Rothschilds, and the Illuminati.

How are we losing £350 billion trading with the EU? Are all our independently-of-EU-&-UK-govt-control all selling to the EU at below cost?

Everyone hates a quango: one of them needs major reform but at least provides assistance to stop independent UK farming being completely priced-out of existence, so that MegaFarm UK Plc can take over - because they really have your and my interests at heart.

One of the freedoms touted will inevitably lead to the break-up - or selling-off - of the NHS. You can't have your £350 million-on-a-'bus, plus freedom for "investors" to move in.

The UK govt and it's widely touted nearly full employment (what's the real figure for McJobs and zero-hours contracts?) plus reluctance to rein in companies who don't pay their employees properly have an effect on in-work poverty. But as long as the booses can earn ever-bigger bonuses - and so contribute to party coffers - it's all o.k.
But it's not the EU's fault.

Stop 3 millionimmigrants arriving? Proper validation would be a real help, and remember what prompted the brexit "win" was fewer Europeans - because they're the real problem, eh? - and an unintended increase in immigration, whether temporary or permanent, form outside the EU.
Just go and look it up.

"Throw out the corrupt, un-Christian leaders of the CofE": Yes, the EU, do something about that, will you?
Of couse, religion has no place on politics. Unless you're Trump and conjure it up to enforce a point. Or one of those hardline Muslim theocracies.

And unparallelled freedoms? Just remember that those freedoms will be used by the elites to further extract value from a UK more defenceless form EU protections.

So, again, Tony and Jon, get back to me when you have concrete attainable positives. Everyone else is watching.
John Clegg
Saturday 25th May 2019 at 3:59 pm
I'm not frothing with anger but I am frustrated when flat-earthers - er, I mean, brexiters - who can't come up with any single tangible and realisable benefit and advantage of brexiting, but can copy-'n'-paste drivel, lies and half-truths.
.
All I'm hoping is that people - not Jon and Tony - will look up facts and make up their own minds, and not be driven by people just repeating largely dis-proveable nonsense.
John Clegg
Saturday 25th May 2019 at 4:41 pm
By the way, Tony, the benefits and advantages of staying in the EU?
* Continued trade with the largest single trading bloc in the world, and trading with all the countries with which the EU trades; and less self-inflicted damage to our own economy.
* At least some pretence of protections:
from looser employment regs - i.e. fewer and less-well-paid staff;
freedom of movement - it's not all about forinners comin' 'ere and nickin' our jobs and going on benefits (thanks, the sun, daily mail, telegraph, express, etc) - which happens to a lesser degree than our own, home-grown feckless, work-shy idlers; it's also about you and me being able to travel to and around Europe. I've heard it's quite nice, even if some speak foreign languages, Nige;
* Our hard-won and constitutionally-preserved vetoes (see my comments above);

The fact is that if someone was going to describe our situation it could well be Germany++.

Despite all the moaning about bad things have gone since 1973, we're benefitting from generally-upwards-trending prosperous times plus we haven't had a war. Apart from those started by our own betters, 1 justifiably, at least, many of the others joined by that good ol' leftie Tony Blair.
Life ain't so bad, is it?
Tony Haluradivth
Saturday 25th May 2019 at 8:45 pm
John Clegg you have a bee in your bonnet. Calm down , watch your blood pressure and stop getting so aerated you are not doing yourself any favours
Claire MacLeod
Saturday 25th May 2019 at 9:22 pm
Haha, Tony, I seem to remember responding to one of your posts not so long ago using similar wording. It's so easy to get worked up when posting online, isn't it?

John Clegg, I don't know who you are, but you are my new hero. You have been speaking my mind... but far more eloquently than I ever could.

Jon Williams, a very impressive list of 'facts', none of which I buy, I'm afraid. Just for an example, how exactly does Brexit guarantee that (whichever government that is in power will) "Abolish income tax for those on under £25,000pa, with automatic RPI increase each year"? A brief explanation will do.

And, out of curiosity, how do you imagine that Brexit will "Restore the family which the EU is busy destroying. Reverse the trend to single mothers." ?

That's an extraordinary premonition, if I may say so.

Looking forward to your answers
John Clegg
Saturday 25th May 2019 at 11:00 pm
Don't worry about me, Tony, I'm not aerated.

But I do have a worry - even a "bee in my bonnet". I just can't believe why people are still believing the falsehoods.

Between you and Jon, you've still not come up with any concrete or substantive positives or advantages to brexit.
Posting-up tired, old, half-remembered stuff from pro-brexit websites doesn't count.

But you crack on, me ol' China. Maybe one day your unicorn will come.
John Clegg
Saturday 25th May 2019 at 11:13 pm
And that's very generous of you, Claire.
I can do this while I'm having a shot of Calvados and so I don't mind doing this stuff because I'm trying to point out the facts - and I'm learning things as I go along, as well.

Jon's wish list had not much to do with brexit. Just saying stuff isn't a constructive argument for anything.

One thing that I found in recent weeks which shows how our current govt doesn't do that much for us - apart from ignoring the UN's rapporteur on poverty in the UK (which might well be a discussion point but I suspect that it's mostly correct, from the precis I saw) - and Labour will be too cash-strapped (well, we will) if it succeeds in only a fraction of its plans - is that May promised £100 million (over 6 years I think) for 10 constituencies whose MPs could be bribed to vote for her deal, when the EU funded £6.2 billion in just about 1 year for new and regeneration projects.

Another interesting fact is that Liverpool has benefitted greatly from EU funding and where the pro-brexit sun (lack of capitals is deliberate, by the way) isn't sold, because, you know, Hillsborough, voted Remain: Barnsley, Doncaster and Sunderland, also large beneficiaries of EU funding, voted Leave. Why?
Tony Haluradivth
Sunday 26th May 2019 at 11:57 pm
How is that egg John ? Not scrambled I hope ;)) Yes you are frothing, you are also coming across as a zealot and further you think you stand as a bastion of truth against lies? And yet you lazily post some tired old trope about chlorinated chicken. This evening my Austrian other half ("a forriner" as you so quaintly allude to,) opened a bag of salad from France and the leaves are washed in chlorine. My old Dad was Lithuanian so does that make me a narrow minded "little Englander" ? My uncle and his entire family were wiped out in Auschwitz and other death camps. And I remember travelling around Europe in the early 60's on it's fabulous varied rail systems and it was perfectly easy. So if there was another referendum (which may be a good idea) if Leave won again would Remainers keep moaning for another vote? I don't know how old you are but Britain functioned well and traded with Europe perfectly ( apart from some Iron Curtain countries like Albania) with a good deal of ease before 1975. And trade in the future? German car dealers have already said they do not wish to lose our lucrative markets even with a no deal. Trade is trade
John Clegg
Tuesday 28th May 2019 at 4:04 pm
Oh, hello, again, Tony. You been hanging on at the frontline of truth vs lies again?
What egg are you on about?
And...er..."Yes, you are frothing" - (you missed a comma). Well, I'm not.

And I'm not a zealot except when it comes to truth and lies over issues as big as this. I know you're getting a bit shirty about because you do that classic thing in trying to belittle whoever is bringing the argument back to you rather than seek your answers independently.

So we'll go again: name 1 positive and substantive benefit for brexit? Just 1. To start with, anyway.
Remember this is supposed to be better than where we are now - or at least-pre June 2016. And you find it difficult because you're starting to doubt the spin about brexit and that you've been lied to. It's fine -because all those farages, rees-moggs, johnsons, etc talk a good fight and you have every right to believe that they're telling us all the truth.

Chlorinated chicken is one of the delights awaiting us from the U.S.. Mechanically- and chemically-reclaiming meat has been going on for years, but I understand that there are acceptable levels; see also your bag of salad - it seems that the EU must allow certain levels but the regulation is looser in the US. But it doesn't work properly: U.S.-derived food infections are about 7 times what they are in the EU.
And while looking for the recent WHO report, I did find this... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/28/well/eat/food-additives-banned-europe-united-states.html

And don't worry about "foriner" which I mis-spelt originally: it's a tired old trope I've seen used by all sorts of frothing, gammon-y brexiters over recent years.

Why do have to assume things from words I've written? And why do you have to attempt to take the moral high ground? Grow up a bit.
Many people including your family members died in the war.
But we have moved on a bit since then and things have improved. Why d'you think that is?

And if we have another referendum but with out all that well-reported fraud and social media manipulation, and the result is clearer, then so be it. Remember farridge said that if the June 2016 result was 52% vs 48%, then we'd have to re-run it. He then pretended that he didn't say it.

Why would my age have anything to do about it? I'm 57 & 3/4. But it doesn't make any difference?
How old are you? I don't care.

Britain functioned well-enough but since 1973, the economic situtation for all Europe has improved: look at how quickly the Balkan states and ex-soviet Eastern bloc states caught up, once trade barriers were removed, post-1989.

German car-makers were genuinely worried in 2016, but have since had nearly 3 years to start refining their forecasts of future sales, not least because of brexit but because of environmental pressures all round.

So don't forget to answer my oft-repeated question: What is 1 positive and substantive benefit for brexit?
Graham McLelland
Wednesday 29th May 2019 at 3:55 pm
In 1974 I voted to enter into the Common Market as it was then called.Since those day all I have seen is an encroachment by Brussels into our British lives .The European court of Human Rights , Our coastal fisheries frequently getting poached in by European Fishermen.Now we see the Mother of All Parliaments unable to speak for the people who put them there.surely a referendum is enough ,Can some tell me please IF they hold another Referendum and again it is to Leave do we continue with referendums until they get a result that suits them? because that means democracy is dead .
I certainly hope those MPs who ignore the will of the people see some sense beacuse if you refuse to accept a result then you abolish democracy.
John Clegg
Wednesday 29th May 2019 at 8:22 pm
Graham, o only came back here to see if Tony - or Jon - has answered the key question (see above).

Another referendum? Prospective leadership candidate Boris has been summoned to explain his 'bus lie. And Leave.Eu's 2016 campaign has been investigated and accused of financial fraud in the campaign.
So another referendum on facts - not conning - seems fair, doesn't it?
Farridge even said that 52 vs 48 would require another referendum, so we can't argue with the new king of Europe.
Tony Haluradivth
Monday 10th June 2019 at 8:26 pm
John Clegg (just back from Estonia and Lithuania visiting my relatives actually) and have enjoyed not looking at your (still frothing, )near hysterical rants (try something for you blood pressure as I think it is you who may really be resembling a piece of boiled gammon these days ;)) It is interesting that s o many so called Liberals really aren't very liberal when they start discussing Brexit. I am in my 80's John and I write these comments with no bile or anger but you really do seem to have the "bit between your teeth ."Gammon" a nasty little piece of racism masquerading as a punchy acceptable "put down" of any folk who voted Leave. It seems a little baffling as among those candidates in the Brexit Party which I (a rather swarthy and proud Ashkenazi Jew) voted for was a Black African woman,a Danish dentist and an Indian businessman. Yes John, egg on your face to go with your ridiculous "gammon" as the Brexit Party was by far the most successful single party in the EU elections 2 weeks ago ;-())
Toodle pip old chap
Stephen Justice
Sunday 16th June 2019 at 7:31 pm
I won’t add to the replies to the torrent of baffling inaccurate and even irrelevant statements from the earlier posts but for Mr McLelland I’d like to say that the ECHR is an institution of the Council of Europe which has been active since 1959.

The Council of Europe has some 40+ members including Russia. The UK has no plans to leave this institution which has its origins in Winston Churchill’s splendid vision of a Europe in which no person would be subjected to prejudiced persecution.

The related Act wasn’t imposed by the EU, rather it was the result of embedding the concepts into UK statute.

There is no intention indicated to repeal this Act but membership of the EU doesn’t prevent it from being repealed although new members are expected to sign up to the concepts.

The Court sits in Strasbourg, not Brussels and isn’t governed by the EU.

So if one of your concerns perhaps main concern about EU membership is the influence of the Court, I suggest you may well be disappointed.

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