Plans for new multi-sports facility progressing well

Alderley Edge School for Girls (AESG) are progressing with their plans to build a new multi-sports facility on land off Wilmslow Road.

Cheshire East Council agreed to lease AESG the 8.6 acre site, opposite Ryleys playing fields, so it can be transformed into a sports facility for football, hockey, tennis, netball and other sports.

As well as providing for Alderley Edge School for Girls, the new facilities will also benefit the local community and be available for Alderley United Junior Football Club, Alderley Edge Hockey Club and local schools to use.

The Greenbelt land was originally acquired by Cheshire County Council as part of the Alderley Edge bypass project, but was later deemed surplus to requirements. Tenders were sought from interested parties to use the land on the basis of a 50-year lease and, following a selection process, Alderley Edge School for Girls was chosen as the preferred bidder.

Sue Goff, Headmistress at Alderley Edge School for Girls said "AESG continues to make exciting progress in securing new sports facilities which will also be made available for the village to use.

"We recently held a preliminary planning meeting with the Planning Officer for Cheshire East and agreed the surveys which are now being organised in preparation for submitting a planning application for the site. In addition our solicitors are working closely with the solicitors from Cheshire East to complete the lease on the land.

"We are having an early meeting with our new Councillor, Craig Browne at the end of the month to discuss our exciting plans with him and also plan to meet with the newly elected Parish Council to discuss ways in which we can work together for the benefit of the village on several key issues."

Tags:
Alderley Edge School for Girls, Wilmslow Road
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Comments

Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add your thoughts below.

Karen Robinson
Tuesday 9th June 2015 at 6:39 pm
Just what we need! Not! "Discuss ways in which we can work together for the benefit of the village" So would that be to include this site as a car park for the school? Now that would benefit the village!
James MacDonald
Tuesday 9th June 2015 at 7:44 pm
This is excellent news for the area and will help grow the interest in sports particularly at school age. The Olympic legacy is that participation in many sports is dropping and it is important that this is reversed.
Claire MacLeod
Tuesday 9th June 2015 at 8:08 pm
Not a bad idea, Karen. It was remarked at last week's Parish Council presentation, by one of the audience, that parking and congestion issues only really exist when all of the schools are 'open for business' - i.e. term time. If I remember correctly, this comment prompted a warm round of applause from the 100 or so attendees (I'm guessing at that figure, as the number of attendees has yet to be reported officially on this website). The fact of the matter is, we have two very popular, private day schools within this village, and pupils at both are driven in by parents, often from some distance I suspect.

I think the schools have an incontrovertible responsibility to make themselves not only part of the solution (to parking issues and congestion), but to play a leading and pro-active role. Clearly, asking the parents nicely to respect the community (including not parking on double yellow lines) has no noticeable effect.

I'm very optimistic that the schools in question (and to be clear, I mean The Rileys and Alderley Edge School for Girls) will meet with the Parish Council and Craig Browne and bring with them some workable ideas about how they intend to help resolve the problem, once and for all.
Mike Dudley-Jones
Wednesday 10th June 2015 at 6:03 am
Claire Macleod's post is an important one as it records, for the first time, a possible opportunity to solve a major part of one aspect of Alderley Edge's parking problem.
The new 8.6 acre site does perhaps allow considerable space for car parking. Indeed, this will be needed once the Sports Centre is in full swing.
How do readers of this post feel about this new car park becoming the Alderley Edge Schools drop off/pick up zone for parents? No further dropping off/picking up would be 'allowed' by the Village's schools outside the Schools themselves. Use of this zone would be a mandatory condition of a pupil's attendance at one of our Schools and parents would need to honour this commitment.
Parking bays could be numbered/colour coded so that pupils know where to find parents etc. This new area would have a sizeable covered building/shelter where perhaps school staff or senior pupils could monitor arrivals and departures at the zone and ensure children are both safe and out of the weather. One or two buses then collect the children and drive the short distance to AESG, then on to AECPS and then on to Ryleys before returning to the drop off zone to collect the next group.
The entire operation would be a mirror' of the long term parking system at most airports in the world - so could be argued that it is a tried and tested operation. Those children who live close to the schools have the added option of walking but clearly that option will need safety guidance rules applied.
The Parish Council is committed to working closely with every agency to ensure that our car parking and traffic problems are solved by long term 2050 solutions not short term ineffective 'stop gaps'. It would be a very useful part of our consultation process, which is already well under way, to hear readers views on this particular approach to what we all know is a significant part of our Village problem.
Mike Dudley-Jones
Wednesday 10th June 2015 at 6:31 am
Karen Robinson,

I must apologise to you! It was your suggestion that prompted Claire's response first and then mine.
Thank you
James MacDonald
Wednesday 10th June 2015 at 9:12 am
Blame the schools if you want but it is simply the fault of the driver that parks illegally and therefore the driver that should be punished. Should we also blame the shops in the village for drivers parking on double yellow lines and the pavement?
Claire MacLeod
Wednesday 10th June 2015 at 9:51 am
Hi James

I don't think it's a case of 'blaming'. It is a fact that parking and congestion are far bigger issues during school term time. Whilst I'm sure most of us agree with your logical suggestion that individual drivers should be punished for selfish and illegal driving and parking, again it is a fact that the scale of the issue is such that with one PCSO, nothing really changes.

I think what Mike Dudley Jones and I are both suggesting in our respective posts is that, collectively, the schools and the Parish Council and any other relevant bodies can and should come together to find a workable solution. I think Mike's idea above is one that could well 'have legs' and would certainly take the problem away from the village's arteries (Rileys Lane; Brook Lane; London Road; and all the other smaller roads around that are connected).

Unless, perhaps, you have an alternative solution that would effectively address the issue? I believe the Parish Council are keen to hear any suggestions and ideas that might help.
Martin Dixon
Wednesday 10th June 2015 at 12:53 pm
What we do seem to know is that punishment, certainly in this case, does not seem to be effective. So the idea of finding a workable alternative and then encouraging parents to use it seems to be a good solution to me.
James MacDonald
Wednesday 10th June 2015 at 12:53 pm
I suspect that in practice, a park and ride scheme would not work as those that already park illegally would continue to do so. Parking around the schools is only an issue at two peak times per day. I would continue to punish the guilty drivers but with a change of legislation to make the punishments more appropriate. Community service would be a greater incentive then a fine and it would also give something back to the local community.

A number of people are already against the proposed new car park to replace the allotments because it is 'too far to walk'. How can you change the mindset of people that won't walk a few hundred metres? I walk / cycle over 100 miles every week and love it, much more fun and healthy than driving.
Lawrence Reeves
Wednesday 10th June 2015 at 7:07 pm
Mike

Lisa wrote an article on this site 27th January 2015, headed "Cheshire East gives notice on car park lease", it was with regards their exit of The Parade car park.

In the article it said "Cheshire East Council remain committed to producing a parking strategy by July 2015".

Do you know if this is being worked on, and if it is still due next month?

Thanks
Lawrence
Mike Dudley-Jones
Thursday 11th June 2015 at 7:55 am
Good Morning, Lawrence,

I am not aware of any specific Cheshire East Council strategy with regard to Alderley Edge. I do know that AEPC have had their first meeting with Cheshire East officials on Wednesday 3rd June and no mention of this was made. I am also aware that Michael Jones, Leader of Cheshire East Council, has reassured Craig Browne that, as far as our urgent desire to find the best parking solutions for Alderley Edge are concerned CEC confirms that 'all options are on the table, provided there is no nuclear bunker found underneath it'!

In the light of this, we would prefer that we, as a Parish Council, continue our promised and detailed consultation process supported by Cheshire East Council not dictated to by them. They too seem to favour this approach and are confident in our abilities in this regard. In so doing, I
believe we will respond more effectively to the needs and desires of our Villagers and deliver a truly workable plan for 2030 and beyond whilst maintaining the goodwill being shown toward us by CEC.

I will explore their 'Parking Strategy July 2015' further though and come back to you when I am a little clearer.
Alan Brough
Thursday 11th June 2015 at 1:10 pm
When this idea was originally mooted it involved a "land swap" with AESG giving up their playing field at Lydiat Lane to AEPC in exchange for use of the much-improved facility at Wilmslow Road.

It was envisaged at that time that Lydiat Lane would be an alternative site for the Heyes Lane Allotment holders and that Heyes Lane would become a car park.

Now, here is a plan that effectively provides first class sports facilities for AESG and Alderley United - in effect making both Lydiat Lane and Chorley Hall Lane Playing Fields redundant.

Are either or both of these sites going to be made available for AEPC use?
Duncan Herald
Thursday 11th June 2015 at 5:06 pm
Hi Alan,

you may be right. Has anyone asked the people who run the Alderley Utd teams how much space/land that they need? Has anyone asked AESG whether they are actually willing to make enough land/pitches/facilities available for Alderley Utd. and other community groups?

Once the lease is done-and-dusted, it is AESG who will decide who/what goes where? May I suggest that the P.C. Chairman engages with the Chairman of the School Governors as soon as possible? If that has already happened, then allow me to apologise for trying to teach my granny to suck eggs!
Alan Brough
Thursday 11th June 2015 at 9:33 pm
Hi Duncan,

As you know, this is a bit of a hobby-horse of mine as I feel that much has been kept from us in the past regarding the discussions around the Wilmslow Road site.

There are those (you included) that would have had us believe that Chorley Hall Lane Playing Fields was a sacred piece of ground, much beloved by those that ply their footballing trade there. This appears not to be the case.

Imagine my surprise to discover this on the CEC website....

http://bit.ly/1IxNXj8

....clearly demonstrating that this "much-loved" playing field is (in fact) a wet bog from which those frequenting it have long sought escape!

It seems that rarely are we told the truth, and we can only guess at the size of the bigger fish that others have to fry.

We can only speculate as to what would motivate them to spend time and money producing illegal leaflets which they would then, in a blind panic, stuff through the doors of Chorley Hall Lane.

We can only wonder why, with this piece of unloved, boggy ground, close to the Village centre WANTING to become available, the former AEPC fixed their collective sights on Heyes Lane Allotments and wouldn't budge.

Funny old World!
Claire MacLeod
Thursday 11th June 2015 at 10:58 pm
Alan

Don't forget the hoards of blackberry pickers, dog walkers and kite flyers, whose pleasure could not be replicated in the park, just metres away...
Mike Dudley-Jones
Friday 12th June 2015 at 6:20 am
Lawrence,

Further to your earlier post, I can find no evidence of a Cheshire East Council Parking Strategy July 2015 coming to fruition.
This is confirmed by colleagues who have been in discussions with CEC Officers in this area as part of our own strategy consultation process.
There are issues concerning parking in Crewe due for review in July 2015 as I recall from a trawl through the CEC website but nothing that might have any impact on our Village.
Lawrence Reeves
Friday 12th June 2015 at 7:34 am
Mike

Thanks for checking.

Lawrence
Duncan Herald
Friday 12th June 2015 at 8:59 am
Hi Alan,

has anyone troubled to consult with the folk who live on or near the CHL Playing Field as to what they might think about the possible future of that land? It is easy to talk/write about consulting, but doing it is really not easy?

I do not believe that the land is a 'sacred piece of ground' but (as those who fought to keep the Heyes Lane allotments put it) once its gone, its gone forever?

The ground is often a bit-of-a-bog. If you go there today, you will note that even after this spell of fine weather, there are big puddles in one of the lower corners. My own view is that this suggests a further collapse of the drains under that part of the ground. To investigate that is not up to you or I, but the P.C. might get involved?

The leaflets you mention; why are you so incensed about them? As far as I know, they simply alerted the inhabitants around CHLane that there was a chance that a car park might be put into CHL Playing Field. I understand that such a move is under consideration by the P.C. (along with all other possible car parking problem solutions) so why are you annoyed at the inhabitants being kept informed? By the way, I had nought to do with the writing, editing,etc. of those leaflets. I simply agreed to deliver some of them.
The only 'blind panic' I felt was about the state of my fingertips after experiencing the man-trap letter boxes!

It would be good if some of the people who live on/around CHLane made their views known. If so and if a majority (against or for) the possibility of a car park on CHL Playing Field emerged, then you and I could stop going on about it?
Could someone who lives there please start up a C.H.L. Residents Group: please?

Lastly, you write above about 'bigger fish that others have to fry'; I am truly baffled by that. Can you please make your meaning clearer for those, such as myself, whose code breaking days are gone?
Alan Brough
Friday 12th June 2015 at 2:42 pm
Duncan,

There is obvious duplicity in what you write.

Over a period of time, the former AEPC could have considered either CHL or Heyes Lane Allotments for partial or complete conversion to car parking. For reasons that have never been made clear they set their sights firmly on Heyes Lane.

There was no consultation with Heyes Lane residents or leaflet delivery to warn them of the planned imposition.

When AlderleyEdgeFirst came along with their scurrilous talk of consulting people and proper, joined-up planning and discussion started about other possible parking sites, someone mentioned CHL.

It would be reasonable to expect a PC to either consider the suggestion or reply that the suggestion HAD been considered with the result that.......

But no, we just heard suppositions about footballers, dog walkers, blackberry pickers and kite flyers (thank you Claire!)

Then, on a dark and stormy night in late April, the shadowy figures of a group of councillors and prospective councillors could be seen flitting from house to house along Chorley Hall Lane, furtively sliding illegal propaganda through letterboxes before stealing away into the gloom!

Why, I ask myself, would those councillors behave like that? Particularly if they knew that the main, long standing occupants of the playing field had already mounted a very effective campaign to escape the clawing clutches of the mud!

Why would they ignore the potential of this piece of land to provide a few much-needed car parking spaces?

Why did they not mention the proposal of a land swap deal with AESG involving Lydiat lane and Wilmslow Road - a proposal that was to bring "Olympic Legacy" Playing Fields for the use of BOTH AESG and the people of Alderley Edge?

Why, when we wrote about possible alternatives to Heyes Lane on this forum, or wanted to talk about them at PC meetings, were we spoken to with discourtesy and disrespect?

Why were the previous PC prepared to go to great lengths (and pains) to acquire ownership of Heyes lane, overturn covenants and completely dishonour the good intentions of a major benefactor of Alderley Edge?

Can I be forgiven for detecting the faintest whiff of fish on the air?

But......as you have said, it's all history and perhaps it's time to forgive and forget and move on. There's no point in going over old ground and we should all get four square behind the new PC and stretch every sinew to support them in some of the very difficult tasks that they face - the reward will be a better, brighter Alderley Edge.
Duncan Herald
Saturday 13th June 2015 at 7:19 am
Good Morning Alan,

of course the previous P.C. considered CHL Playing Field as a possible car park site. Other p[ossible sites also.Given its propensity to become a bog and the fact that CEC have refused to sanction conversion to a car park, what would you have done? Hayes Lane was the chosen site for several reasons (no, I won't go over them all again) as the best site possible.
If the new P.C. decide not to have a car park as such then you can discuss that with them. If the new P.C. decide to have a car park then I'm sure they will make public their reason/s for their chosen site and you can debate that with them.
I plead personal disinterest (i.e. no axe to grind) as I live within easy walking distance of the village and have parking space within my own property.

Why are you so scathing about dog walkers and footballers and people who gather in nature's food bounty? Are you being some kind of urban snob?

You refer, in a jocular manner, to the 'clawing clutches of the mud' (nice aliteration there); well the mud is still there, so exactly what has your claim for an 'effective campaign' got to do with reality? Please list the works carried out? It is still a muddy field. I still believe that the drains have collapsed again. Perhaps you might find time to consult with CEC/'ansa' as to whether there are field drains under the playing Field?

Hi Ho, the leaflet delivered to the occupants of CHLane and immediate surroundings has trult gotten 'up the nose' of you guys eh? Yet all it did was to tell the inhabitants thereof that there was consideration of turning 'their' playing field into a car park and that some of the new councillors seemed to be in favour of that. Have you an objection to freedom of information? Does clarity cause bile to rise in your throat/
The flyers were delivered on a clear evening, of fair weather, not by a group and no furtive flitting went on. Cor! you make it sound like a collection of rascals, on the Great Grimpen Mire. out to discommode Mr. Holmes!

Come on now Alan, man-up by telling plainly to the occupants of CHLane that you advocate their playing field be turned into a car park. Then they can reply to you.

Next (I'm enjoying this) you attack the former P.C. for overturning a covenant and dishonouring a former major benefactor. Change happens. Would you be prepared to stand as Chairman of the 'bring back small thatched cottages to A.E.' ? And how exactly do you see closing the Heyes Lane site as an evil act by the satanists of the previous P.C. but the building of a car park on CHL Playing Field as a noble act by a group of angelic and sainted well wishers?
No duplicity there?

Oh dear, its raining; now I can't take my dog for a walk on the CHL Car park, oops, playing field.
Alan Brough
Saturday 13th June 2015 at 9:10 am
Duncan (Oh Duncan!)

I am sure that the good people of alderleyedge.com must by now be sick of the sight and sound of our names!

In your post above you say "Of course the previous PC considered CHL as a possible car park site" and then you admit that when the idea was considered by the prospective AEF candidates you trotted-off down Chorley Hall Lane with your illegal leaflets, crying "FOUL!" I cant be sure about the exact weather conditions on the night in question but as you were definitely there, I will (on this occasion) take your word for it.

My own view is that it would be wrong to take all of the green space from Heyes Lane or all of the green space from Chorley Hall Lane. I believe that the Village does need additional parking spaces, and that some spaces could be made available at Heyes Lane without fundamentally changing the landscape and green barrier, and at Chorley Hall Lane whilst still leaving enough space for a playing field.

In addition, the land at Wilmslow Road that is owned by CEC and which, it is proposed, will be leased to AESG could be used for some car parking also. You ask elsewhere if AESG would be happy to let part of the land be used for car parking. I would suggest that as a major contributor to the car parking problem, their "conscience" might guide them to do the right thing or otherwise AEPC / CEC might be persuaded to negotiate a "little something" into the lease arrangement.

In addition there is the interesting plan drawn up by Hamilton-Baillie that Vin Sumner kindly drew our attention to. It looks to me like a very well thought-out and progressive suggestion.

No, I am not an urban snob and I very much enjoy activities such as dog walking and picking the fruits of the hedgerow - I have a couple of flagons of sloe gin and blackberry wine as proof!

Moving on, yes I am annoyed at the old PC for overturning the covenant on the allotment for a number of reasons - which include both principles and practicalities. Your idea that change is always "improving" is plain wrong and will quickly have Alderley Edge looking like any other small town, bereft of character and charm, beneath an unattractive layer of grey concrete.

Anyway, enough of this. It's becoming like Groundhog Day, waking up and saying and reading the same thing over and over.

Shall we call it quits and get together behind the new PC in their efforts to make Alderley Edge a better place?
Duncan Herald
Saturday 13th June 2015 at 5:11 pm
Alan, yes.
ps the Hamilton-B thing, when approx. costed was scary.
Chris Harper
Thursday 18th June 2015 at 7:21 am
The suggestion to turn Heyes Lane Allotments to a carpark was met with disapproval, for all the same and other additional reasons this disapproval will apply to any suggestion of altering Chorley Hall Lane (CHL) playing field. We are commenting here however these comments could also potentially be posted at the article relating to the Alderley Edge Park (park) and the running of it by the parish council as do consider CHL playing field is directly related.

CHL Playing field is coherently linked to the park and provides distinct and numerous alternative uses to those of the park (that often may not go well together). The father and son playing football with various training equipment, the people walking their dog and the man flying his radio controlled drone on the evening of 15-06-2015 when I walked through being three examples. The first public meeting by the new Parish Council showed pictures of gardens and planting and noted ‘’how our park could look’’, such proposals not necessarily 100 % conducive to footy + rugby balls, general kids / adults outdoor games / activities, running, fitness training, dogs running off a lead, larger gatherings, open green space etc. etc. Pictures of fitness equipment, five aside football and volleyball were also shown at this meeting, such activities a perfect fit at CHL Playing Field that is linked and in close proximity to the park, residents and accessible to all.

CHL Playing Field is not a ‘’bog’’ (far from it from my many experiences of use throughout both the winter and summer months) and certainly not just used by Alderley Edge Football Club. It is also not only the football field but the surrounding grass areas that are used by the community for the activities as described above and more. For football the reserves and siblings use the other spaces to warm up or have a secondary game / kick around. It is potentially one of the villages best assets, there is significant scope to better link the park with the playing field, promote and provide a magnificent community space / environment (it is already used by many locals in this capacity).

The above comments also setting aside (and as noted in the first public parish meeting there is a desire by most to park in close proximity to the service that they are using) that CHL Playing Field is not close enough to schools, train station, festival hall, offices, restaurants and it would therefore not be utilised for parking for these uses.

The best course of action must be to let the review of car-parking take place before suggesting conversion of our villages most prime (and limited) central green spaces (even only part of) to car-parks. It was my understanding that this review is happening. We can then assess the causes and address with those directly related / impacting (i.e. but not limited to schools and train parking and riding (however being two of the more widely acknowledged and obvious known contributors) – the schools may (and should) offer assistance / provide alternatives? For the train Wilmslow charges for train parking and provides a functional drop off area to encourage drop offs and pickups rather than parking and riding?. To name but a few options etc. etc. etc.). We must look to treating the source not trying to feed it, there are many examples of how this has failed in the past. We should be protecting for the future such valuable and great community assets of the likes of CHL Playing Field. When such accessible to all Alderley Edge residents green public space is gone (or even part of) it will be gone fore-ever.
Duncan Herald
Saturday 20th June 2015 at 1:46 pm
Anyone know when the results of the 'car-parking review' might be available to we of the general public?
Even a list of what the options are that are being considered would be helpful?
Mushroom ?
Peter Watson
Saturday 20th June 2015 at 10:41 pm
The heckling from the pavilion seems to continue. It is simply not cricket.
Duncan Herald
Monday 22nd June 2015 at 8:56 am
Good Morning Peter,

is it an heckle to ask questions? By the 'Chambers...Dictionary', only if they are 'embarrassing questions'. I have no particular wish to embarrass, so please accept my question/s as 'an enquiry'.
We of the general public have been told that the parking problem is the first priority of the AEPC.
I assume that those who are now the duly elected parish councillors did discuss their options re. parking, before/during May.
We general public have been assured (at the recent open meeting) that 'all options are on the table'.
It has been approx. 5 weeks since the new AEPC took over. WE were told that they 'hit the ground running'.

Whilst not wishing to urge any hurried decisions, I think that I am allowed to ask a few questions?

In case I have been less clear that I meant, let me put those questions again:
1. Will AEPC please provide a list of all the options, for easing the parking problem.
2. Which if any of those options have been discarded? If so, why?
3. Which if any of those options have involved a delay due to interaction with CEC?
4. Have CEC caused the AEPC to rule out any options? If so, which one/s and why?
5. Has AEPC come to any final conclusion/s? If so, what ?

The general public were offered clarity, transparency and consultation. If the above questions can be answered, that would help?

I repeat that this is not a heckle. Simply a member of the public eager to find out what is happening. How can I support the P.C. if I don't know what it is doing?

I'd like to 'play a straight bat'!
Peter Watson
Monday 22nd June 2015 at 10:53 am
If indeed you were a simple member of the public Duncan then it might not appear as a heckle. However, you are a deposed councillor with an obvious axe to grind.
Duncan Herald
Monday 22nd June 2015 at 11:26 am
Hi Peter,

the world is full of deposed councillors! This one does not have any axe to grind. Tell me do, what in your opinion, is my axe? I'm just axing questions !

Onwards with the new guys and the best of luck to them!

Why not accept that my questions are exactly as they seem i.e. simple questions, the answers to which will enable myself (and anyone else interested) to know what the new P.C. is doing about the parking problem.

Why not support a wish to be told what the new guys are doing?
It is as much my village as yours etc. so why should I not take an interest?

Go on, be a devil and get some answers.

No sniping, no heckling, no axe-grinding. Why won't someone answer my questions?
Peter Watson
Monday 22nd June 2015 at 1:05 pm
Could it be that they are not yet ready to make their findings public? I think that should be respected. I would imagine that when they are in position to have fully evaluated everything, they will report their findings. There is little point in going off half-cocked, with ill thought out plans, like the previous PC did. You did have a very long tenure in which to sort out these parking problems, before you were voted out by the village, yet they seem to still be with us.
Duncan Herald
Monday 22nd June 2015 at 2:21 pm
Hi Peter,

1. the last P.C. did indeed have a well-thought out and much debated in public plan. To turn the Heyes Lane site into a car park. You may not have liked that plan, but it was pretty much fully formed and out in the public gaze. Thus the last P.C. did make an attempt to 'sort out these parking problems'.
2. why must the public wait for the emrgence of 'their findings'? What happened to the much quoted principle of consulting the public?
3. let me put a question to you; do you think that there is any solution to the parking problem other than building a large car park? If so, where do you envisage it being built?

Come on, cease to 'knock' other peoples' idea of a solution, put your head up over the parapet and give us your ideas.
Peter Watson
Monday 22nd June 2015 at 9:16 pm
Well I tried, but I can now see that there is very little point in debating anything with you. I will leave you with your slightly distorted view of history. Whatever it is that drives you to post, whatever your purpose or your desired outcome; I personally think it does your public persona harm. In the past I had enough respect for you to know that I want no part in encouraging you to continue.
Fiona Braybrooke
Tuesday 23rd June 2015 at 12:16 am
So you believe Duncan that "the last P.C. did indeed have a well-thought out and much debated in public plan." Well at least they thought so. But the electorate of AE did not agree with you and booted you out. That could have been because you disrespected them and refused to listen to their views. I would have thought that you may have learned a lesson from that. It seems not. Why do I say that? Simply because you seem to disregard the fact that we all removed you from your council chambers, took away your title, demonstrated to you our lack of confidence and voted in a new and exciting council. Even after that you continue your one man crusade to justify the wisdom of the "old guard", to belittle the "new guard" and to distort and misrepresent facts because it in some way makes you feel better. None of the other ex-councillors are doing that, they seem to have chosen to simply 'let it go'. If I were in your shoes, I would have a bit of a word with myself and decide to move on to something more productive.

I used to think of you as the only sane voice on the PC, now I only see the total opposite.
Duncan Herald
Tuesday 23rd June 2015 at 7:15 am
Hi Fiona,

I don't think that I had a title; perchance 'honorary parky?

I agree that there is a new P.C. and I keep on saying that I wish it every good luck possible.

But why don't I get any answers to my questions?
Why when I (and others) are asked for suggestions do we not get any response to suggestions?

I don't laud the wisdom of the 'old guard' and I do not ignore that the electorate chose a new council. But don't demonise that 'old guard'; it did some good things (like a new medical centre?).

You used to complain that the former councillors did not consult/engage with/answer. Here I am trying to do that and you want it to stop.

Hi Peter,

cease to debate if you wish. But why won't you answer questions?


What drives me to post? I live in this village and I'd like the P.C. to tell me what it intends to do in the village. Is that so outrageous?

It would be nice if some, other than the 'usual few', joined in with this.
Alan Brough
Tuesday 23rd June 2015 at 11:29 am
Hi Duncan,

I can fully understand why you are anxious to see a resolution to the parking problem - you and your former colleagues were nine years in office and managed very little in terms of an effective parking strategy.

The new Parish Council have been in office less than nine weeks and have made it clear that they intend to consult, and consider a variety of options before putting more "meat on the bones" - this seems entirely reasonable to me.

I guess that they could be forgiven for playing their cards cautiously close to their collective chests, lest the phantom night-time leafleteer takes to the streets again, causing confusion as he goes!

Trying to be constructive, my suggestion to you would be to take a short walk down your unadopted road on Friday morning to Aldeli where Councillor Craig Browne will be holding one of his regular forums at which (I feel certain) he will happily provide an update on any matters arising.
Duncan Herald
Tuesday 23rd June 2015 at 8:04 pm
Hi Alan,

are you being a tad unfair? for much of the time, in the past, there didn't seem to be a parking problem. certainly no one was complaining of a parking problem a few years ago. This problem seems to have crept up on us fairly recently?
I'm happy to await the P.C's plan/s; perhaps something will be revealed at the July P.C. meeting do you think?
I will wait, with bated breath, for a program of consultation to appear. Hopefully that will include listing the variety of options to be considered, do you think?
I am happy to speak with Craig, but i do not wish to be seen as 'interfering'. Its a new day and a new group after all.
I'd rather the update reached more than just me; a humble member of the general public as I am.

Good news about 'Yesterdays' being (hopefully) removed? Now if 'they' could take away the ruined pub as well?
Martin Dixon
Tuesday 23rd June 2015 at 9:27 pm
Duncan you did make me smile when you said "but i do not wish to be seen as 'interfering'." Are you really expecting people to believe that in light of your recent posts?

You are a man who likes to ask questions and demands answers, so I hope you don't mind me asking you a question. When you talked about parking, you said "This problem seems to have crept up on us fairly recently?" Could you tell me precisely when you became aware, as a councillor, of a parking problem and could you also tell me when the council, that you were a member of, came up with the idea of turning the allotments into a car park to alleviate such a problem?

If, as you say, this problem suddenly crept up, could you help us all by explaining the sudden cause of this problem. Or even enlighten us to quantify the scale of the problem? I am sure that the previous PC must have rigorously researched this.
Alan Brough
Tuesday 23rd June 2015 at 9:31 pm
Hi Duncan,

No, I don't think I'm being unfair.

Parking problems should not creep up on a PC unannounced.

Being privy to Planning and Development proposals means that a progressive PC ought to be able to see what is landing in their "In tray.

I concede that the pace at which development has happened / is happening in Alderley Edge is head-spinningly fast, and we can only wonder why.

That doesn't mean that Alderley Edge residents have to accept the many and varied dictates handed down by Michael Jones and his cohorts or that we should assume they are for the greater good of the Village.

Your obvious support of the development of "Yesterdays" is a concern as it clearly does nothing to address the provision of affordable housing and appears to support another opportunistic land-grab by a Developer that will (sooner or later) necessitate a sacrifice of green belt land to provide the necessary land that CE says we have to give up for the "greater good."

I would just like to see some joined-up thinking that is aimed at stopping Alderley Edge from being exploited by opportunist Developers.

It hasn't happened in the last few years and I have no doubt that the new PC will have their work cut out in making any appreciable change to this worrying state of affairs.
Duncan Herald
Wednesday 24th June 2015 at 9:14 am
Martin,
as to the time when a parking problem became apparent. Since the old P.C. were talking about it over the last year or three, then that P.C. must have been aware around then? The idea of building a car park at Heyes Lane was some time in gestating. I will not waste time in re-hashing the decision that the Heyes Lane answer was the best answer. I believed then that it was and I still do. You probably don't. We shall see what solution/s the new P.C. can produce. If their decision is that a car park is needed then the next problem is where to put it? The 'sudden' cause of the problem? How about the ever expanding village population with the inevitable increase in cars?
I have tried to answer your questions. Now you respond please. What would you do about the parking problem? If the answer is a car park, where would you site it?

Hi Alan,

the matter of affordable housing occurs regularly. Questions:
firstly what cost constitutes affordable in A.E.?
secondly who should/will pay for the building of affordable housing?
thirdly which people would you target affordable housing at?

It is possible for a P.C. to be involved in major building works i.e. the new Medical Centre. Can a P.C. go on to be the 'developer' of affordable housing? You tell me?

Being privy to Planning. The Borough Councillor should be the man for that. Otherwise, planning stuff just arrives on the P.C's desk. Also alas remember that the P.C. has no authority whatsoever over planning. I (and others) used to swan off and inspect stuff that the Planning Officers threw at us. The new P.C. will probably have to do the same.
Lord help whichever new councillor has to mug up on the arcane terminology of Planning! It regularly defeated me!

I'm 'for' deveoping 'Yesterdays' as it will at least remove an ugly eyesore. Whether the planners will allow the futuristic proposed houses remains to be seen of course?
So many people want to come to live in A.E. How to balance that with 'opportunistic development'? Perhaps only CEC could do that?
Fiona Braybrooke
Wednesday 24th June 2015 at 7:23 pm
I think your time of gestating was when you knew that the CEC would be passing down the management of allotments in the borough to the Town and Parish Councils, I believe that an interesting article was written by Lisa Reeves in 2011 of AEPC intention to turn the allotments into a car park. If you had realised then the anamosity that was felt within the village you could have investigated other ways of embracing the parking quenudrum in Alderley Edge.
Claire MacLeod
Wednesday 24th June 2015 at 10:34 pm
The thing is, Duncan, that whilst you protest that you don't want to appear to be 'interfering' and you wish the new PC 'every good luck possible', those of us who frequent this site may be more inclined to believe that perhaps your position is not quite as benign and generous of spirit as you claim.

The fact that you have been relentlessly demanding updates from the new PC, almost from the moment they took on their new responsibilities, (and you lost yours) suggests something quite the contrary. Add to this the fact that you quite openly broadcast in your posts that you maintain that the Heyes Lane allotments to car park 'solution' was and remains the only viable answer to Alderley Edge's parking challenges, and we begin to perhaps get a better grasp of your real motivations.

I'm sure I'm not alone in my suspicions that, once the Parish Council do publicise the work that they've done in this area, regardless of what information they happen to share, you will be ready, primed and spoiling for blood, or at least a very good battle. And all on here, in a public forum, like the Roman Colosseum, for the entertainment of the baying crowds. (Probably the real reason why you are reluctant to take up Alan Brough's excellent suggestion that you go to Craig's surgery on Friday and have a face-to-face chat.)

We know, Duncan, that you are waiting 'with bated breath' for announcements. Not because you are more interested in a constructive, imaginative and positive way forward for this village, but that you can't wait to shoot holes in whatever the PC proposes or suggests, because it isn't what you wanted/ thought best. Your attack will, I predict, be in your usual, unique style. Peppered with inane questions. And 'hey nonny no' quips. Regardless, that will be your approach. That is your 'M.O.'. And I, for one, am not looking forward to it.

As a postscript, I must say that I suspect that those of us who have formed this opinion of you had hoped, at one point or another, we were wrong and that, in time, you would soften your stance and turn your passion for the future of this village into practical and moral support for the newly elected Parish Council. But that looks increasingly unlikely, doesn't it?
Martin Dixon
Wednesday 24th June 2015 at 11:44 pm
Duncan

I can see that your memory is not what it used to be. The first report I can find of the PC wanting to build a car park on Heyes Lane was November 2011. I am assuming that this plan must have been as a result of a perceived parking problem which must have been apparent to the PC previous to this. Logic suggests that this must have been evident for a number of years for the PC to get round to dealing with it. So for the sake of argument shall we say that the old PC were aware of this for five years? Five years Duncan, and you demand answers from a new PC after five weeks. Is it not you who is being unfair and incongruent here?

So in that five years did you achieve any increase in parking provision in AE? No, you did not. Did you achieve a decrease in parking provision, yes you certainly did. Daytime residents parking and double yellow lines are your legacy. What did you do to parking around the Festival Hall? You first turned it into permit holders only and then completely eradicated it as you started development work. So if there is a parking problem, were you and your accomplices the solution or the cause?

You ask me what my solution would be to the parking issues. I would fully evaluate the situation. I would want to know what the current situation is. What the areas of concern are. How will this change over time into the future. What all the businesses in the village need. What all the residents in the village need. How simple, cost free initiatives can help. To understand what resources we have and what options we have. To evaluate their cost / efficiency. To document this data and then to communicate proposals to the village to get consensus, buy-in and agreement. Then I would implement the strategy as effectively as possible.

What I would not do is to behave like Baldrick and say "I have a cunning plan Blackadder, we pave over the allotments and then everyone will be happy" With a dismayed look on his face Blackadder says in an irritated tone "Yes Baldrick, but you do recognise that your concept of cunning has not exactly lived up to expectation over the years? If we did that we would almost certainly be voted out of office and have to lead a life of repetitive justification as to why we had all lost our minds!"
Duncan Herald
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 9:50 am
Martin,
1. Double yellow lines are created by CEC, usually at the request of citizens. Are you objecting to the democratic right of the village citizens?
2. You were asked a simple question i.e. what would you do about the parking problem; your response is a paragraph of management gobbledogook, with nary a single concrete proposal. Fat lot of good that's done!
Claire,
1. the updates I have requested are mainly that the P.C. tells the public what it is considering re. solving parking problems. I firmly contend that to ask for a simple list of what options are being considered is quite reasonable behaviour.
2. Yes I do still consider that a car park on Heyes Lane site is the best option. I have not and do not make a secret of that. So exactly what do you mean by writing that you have a better grasp of my real motivations? My real motivation is to see the parking problem solved (if that is possible) and that I very much believe that there is no better answer than a car park on Heyes Lane. What other 'real motivation' might I have? Do tell!
3. If you think that my questions are inane, why not just answer them?
4. I am perfectly happy to support the new Parish Council. But not blindly. When the P.C. tell we of the general public of their intentions, then if the intentions are clear, good and workable I shall be happy to support them.
5. I believe that the odd quip is rather better than the lashing out with insults that seems to be your answer to any question.

Fiona,
why do you continue to blindly state that the old P.C. didn't consider other possible sites for a car park? Of course it did.
There would be a touch of irony if the new P.C., after considering all options, came back to proposing a car park on Heyes Lane site? I aaume that you would support that decision?

Its always a pleasure to 'debate' with you three gentlefolk. I do wonder however why we don't hear from individual parish councillors (except occasionally Mike D-J)? Has the P.C. blacklisted dear old alderleyedge.com.
Pete Taylor
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 10:58 am
It does not take long to go from being the only Parish Councillor who showed a shred of respectability on this website to being the worst sort of poor loser. Duncan, it seems to have escaped your notice but one of the prime reasons all the Conservatives lost their seats (in what is prime Tory territory) was because of the Heyes Lane fiasco. Please have the decency to give your elected representatives time to figure out exactly what they have inherited. Your current postings do you no credit at all, to be frank.
Graham Jackson
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 12:13 pm
@ Pete

Add the half a million pound shortfall in to the Medical Centre's costing as well.
Jon Williams
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 2:02 pm
With so much happening in the village this weekend and not enough parking space it would have been great if Hayes Lane could have been made into a car park by now !
Claire MacLeod
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 2:05 pm
Jon, it appears that the majority of the Alderley Edge electorate do not agree.
Jon Williams
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 6:46 pm
Not quite correct about that Claire as we only had a Turnout of 67.95%
Claire MacLeod
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 7:45 pm
OK, so the remaining 32.05% didn't care enough to cast a vote. Still suggests that most of the electorate did not enthusiastically support the plan to turn Heyes Lane into a car park, Jon. Wouldn't you say? Or am I missing something?
Alan Brough
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 9:13 pm
Hello Jon,

You're right that there is a lot going on in Alderley Edge this weekend and most of us will be able to walk the short distance from our homes to the Village in order to partake.

Those that want to come from further afield could either plan their journey by public transport or they could use the car parking in the Park, London Road, South Street or the various other side streets.

There is however a finite limit to the amount of car parking space that the Village can (and should provide) and it is clear from the furore surrounding the recent PC elections, that we have reached something of a tipping point.

My judgement is that the people of Alderley Edge have "called time-out" whilst the issue is given full and proper consideration.

You are obviously quite happy to surrender Heyes Lane. Allotments for car parking, but what happens as the Village becomes even more popular? Shall we demolish St Philips or St Pious Churches?

Just a thought!
Peter Watson
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 9:53 pm
Alan, Fiona, Claire, Martin, Pete and Graham

I thought I was a lone voice but there seems to be a real consensus on this one. Time for Duncan to let go and move on.
Fiona Braybrooke
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 10:14 pm
Hi Duncan
To be frank your posts do come across that you are quite aggrieved that you where not electeted onto the new PC. I am sure you have some great ideas an of course insite of some issues that were not fully addressed or in fact not fully resolved by the former PC. Why not go along to the next Craig Browns Surgery and maybe suggest that you could put together s team that could go and sort out the Cemetory and for example varnish those benches that are lacking a little TLC. That is what I believe is coummnity spirit which is what Alderley Edge is all about
Martin Dixon
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 10:17 pm
Duncan 'Baldrick" Herald

"1. Double yellow lines are created by CEC, usually at the request of citizens. Are you objecting to the democratic right of the village citizens?"
I think the citizens of the village are very astute as they exercised their right to remove you. CEC generally see the citizens being represented by their PC, it is the nature of democracy, therefore these changes in parking restrictions were lobbied by the previous PC and the previous ward councillor. I do wish you would show some backbone and take some responsibility for your actions.

"2. You were asked a simple question i.e. what would you do about the parking problem; your response is a paragraph of management gobbledogook, with nary a single concrete proposal. Fat lot of good that's done!"
It would seem you are not familiar with modern management principles. Have you held many management positions in your career? Was it a Freudian slip to mention concrete proposals, you seem very keen on proposing to concrete over green spaces. Oh and by the way it is gobbledegook.
Claire MacLeod
Thursday 25th June 2015 at 10:39 pm
Duncan

If you insist on continuing this ridiculous exchange, even when it is evident that most of those sharing an opinion on this site are advising you to 'wind your neck in', let me tackle your most recent post.

You say, in your response to me, " I believe that the odd quip is rather better than the lashing out with insults that seems to be your answer to any question." I'm not sure what insults in particular you are referring to, as I try to keep my comments factual and non-personal (if you would like to elaborate, I would certainly be interested).

But earlier, in your response to Martin you say, "your response is a paragraph of management gobbledogook, with nary a single concrete proposal. Fat lot of good that's done!"

Firstly, does that remark not seem insulting? When I read Martin's suggestion it struck me as well thought out, considered, methodical and logical. You appear not to be familiar with (or, indeed, from previous comments, supportive of) tried and tested business formulas such as: business plans; consultation; cost/benefit analysis; thorough and detailed research and investigation, and due diligence.

If the Parish Council is to be run efficiently, and with the best interests of the village at heart then, surely, it is reasonable to expect it to be run according to these tried and tested business models? It is not 'gobbledogook' or even 'gobbledegook'. It is the difference between organisations that succeed and organisations that fail. Your dismissal of these strategies says much about your understanding of running a successful and, importantly, sustainable organisation - whether that happens to be our local Parish Council or anything else.

Given that our Parish Councillors are, as you well know, unpaid volunteers, who have already articulated their commitment to delivering the best for the village, would you not agree that now is the time (if not, much, much sooner) to back off, and give them a break?
Kirsteen Peel
Friday 26th June 2015 at 7:31 am
I have previously spoken out in support of Duncan being the only one of the "old guard" who engaged with the electorate (even if I didn't agree with what he was saying, he did at least stick his head above the parapet).

However recently I cannot help but detect elements of sour grapes and heckling in his posts and this saddens me - and relegates him to the level of some of his colleagues on the former PC.

Such a shame...
Duncan Herald
Friday 26th June 2015 at 9:16 am
Aghhhh!
No sour grapes; honest. I did my stint and now others can have a go. I do not resent losing the election: all political 'careers', even one as humble as mine, must end in defeat!
Insults to me? Being written of as always belittling the P.C?. Untrue. I just ask questions. Which don't get answered.
I do not heckle; asking simple questions is not a heckle. Just answer the questions please?
As to management gobble-de-whatsit...please can we have some actual/concrete/real proposals? For example, to deal with or not deal with re-furbing the cemetery benches; not a difficult question surely? Yes we will or no we won't?
Why mention that Parish Councillors are unpaid? So were the previous ones. And the ones before that.
Have I had management tasks? I would report that I've chaired many a committee in the past. And just for Vin., I also was a member of Union committees, at both Manchester and National level: just trying to get you on my side Vin.!
Why would I be keen on concreting green spaces? Silly thing to say! What will you guys say if the P.C. comes out in favour of a car park, replacing a green space?
Fiona: you write about community feeling and a team to do the cemetery benches. When do you propose to set up that team? When will you lead your brave band to the cemetery to get stuck into that job? Or shall you be too busy?
Plans, Consultation, Cost/Benefit/Due Diligence. Sounds impressive. When might we humble citizens see some please?

I accept that the questions here will not be answered. So why don't we all shush and see what comes out at the next P.C. meeting?
Fiona Braybrooke
Friday 26th June 2015 at 2:20 pm
Hi Duncan
I am sorry you did not understand my post. You appear to have some great ideas about the Cemetery so why are you not prepared to get involved?
Pete Taylor
Friday 26th June 2015 at 5:12 pm
Duncan, many of us asked the previous PC questions for many years and got no answers. You seem to want instant responses to everything from folks who have been in office but afew weeks and have inherited a dogs breakfast. Serious questions remain to be answered regarding conflict of interest and who on the former PC remained silent when they really should have spoken out.
Duncan Herald
Monday 6th July 2015 at 9:27 am
Hallo Fiona,
thank you for your praise re. ideas.
My time as being the Councillor re. the cemetery is over. The new guy will have as many ideas as I did, I'm sure. Is it time for others in the community to 'get stuck in'? Why not you?
I did set up a 'Friends of the Cemefery', group, back in the day, but alas it was not a great success. Not through any lack of hard work by those involved in 'running' it.

Pete,
any question to me re. my immediate areas of concern i.e. park and cemetery were always
answered to the best of my ability so to do and were answered promptly. Do you disagree?

The incoming P.C. did not inherit a 'dog's breakfast'. Do stop making these foolish generalisations. If you care to be specific, we can see whether you are justified or not, in your mini-rant.

Did I have a conflict of interest? Please name/describe. If not, then kindly stop making unwarrantable accusations in something addressed only to me. If you have a specific accusation, why not address it to the person concerned?

I don't believe that I have expected instant responses. Having said that, how long does it take to decide that barbed wire should or should not be removed from the park? Has anyone answered that question to you?
Pete Taylor
Monday 6th July 2015 at 2:52 pm
Duncan, as I'm sure you know, it was not my intention to imply that you personally had a conflict of interest.