Over 50 members of the public turned out for a special meeting of Alderley Edge Parish Council (AEPC) on Monday, 29th September, to witness them change the status of the Heyes Lane allotments.
The meeting was called so councillors could vote on a motion to amend the status of the allotments on Heyes Lane from statutory to non-statutory so they can dispose of them and turn the site into a car park.
Whilst many of those who attended were resigned to the fact that whatever they said at the meeting was not going to change the councillor's mind, some certainly didn't seem prepared to accept the decision as final.
Speaking at the beginning of the meeting Cllr Mike Williamson, Chairman of AEPC, said "This is a special parish council meeting called out of the normal cycle, held because now, at the end of September, we are approaching the end of the allotment year. The Parish Council wants to give certainty to tenants, to make clear what the future is going to be like."
Prior to the councillors voting on the motion, members of the public and allotment holders spoke vehemently against the Council's action whilst acknowledging the decision had already been made.
John Tomlinson, Vice-Chairman of Alderley Edge Allotments & Garden Society, spoke first to challenge the Parish Council's authority to make such a change.
He said "I think you are making a mistake in putting tonight's resolution on the agenda. And you will make a bigger mistake if you pass it.
"Why do I say that? Firstly Alderley Edge Parish Council does not own the land. It is tenant. It is not of this Council to apply or not apply to the Secretary of State - that responsibility rests with Cheshire East Council. Likewise, any decisions bearing on the status are matters for the Borough Council and the Secretary of State. You do not have the authority to make the decision on the agenda.
"Secondly, the people of the village do not want the allotments turned into a car park. As you are aware, our petition is on-going and there are now further signatures of Alderley Edge adults, taking the total to 1,737. This equates to 47% of the number of electors. They are saying very clearly to you nine councillors, 'No, we do not want you to take these allotments away'."
John Tomlinson added "I give you notice that the National Allotments Society is considering whether to mount a legal challenge to your action. Please do not waste Alderley Edge council tax payers' funds trying to overturn a law that has been in place for 89 years."
John's statement was met with rapturous applause from members of the public, as were those of other speakers.
Mike Dudley-Jones commented "All I wanted tonight, and when we had a previous meeting earlier, was transparency. I don't know how you feel but I'm not terribly sure we're looking through clean glass. I think we look through frosted glass most of the time and the Council believes that it acts in the best interest of 100%, or a very high percent, of people in this village, I don't know that that is true."
Having sought legal advice about it rights to act in this manner, Cllr Mike Williamson said "That legal advice is absolutely crystal clear and the notice to quit we issued back this year is legal, is enforceable and we will act upon it."
Fenton Simpson called for this legal advice to be made public, saying "In the interest of transparency you need to publish this information." However, Cllr Frank Keegan dismissed this request, saying no they don't - whilst Cllr Mike Williamson responded that they will discuss it amongst themselves and if they decide against making the legal advice public they will explain why they have chosen not to do so.
Judy Tomlinson addressed the audience to say "There is a lot of difference of opinion about the law, that is how case law is made. Just because one person gets legal advice saying one thing doesn't meant to say that is what the final outcome will be. What I'm trying to do is reassure people that whatever the Parish Council does today, and they can pass their motion if they wish, the fight goes on."
Following the public participation Cllr Mike William proposed that the Parish Council pass a motion "that pursuant to legal advice regarding the status of the Heyes Lane Allotment Site, AEPC resolves to amend the status from statutory to non-statutory."
He said "As far as I am concerned this all started when the Primary Care Trust (PCT) obtained planning permission in August 2012, for a new medical centre to be built at the Festival Hall site. The car park currently has 52 spaces, but the planning permission reduces that to 32. The lease for the medical centre requires 25 of those spaces, little is left for the hall. We know demand for space will be greater than that available.
"Where we were able, by working with Alderley Edge School for Girls, to obtain an alternative site for allotments, at Lydiat Lane, the Parish Council was able to consider changing the use of Heyes Lane to a car park to meet the needs of the hall, the medical centre and for the village as a whole.
"The Parish Council, starting from the position that the Heyes Lane site might be statutory allotments, approached the DCLG for clarification. The Parish Council knows that on the 1952 map from the County Archive, Heyes Lane is shown as non-statutory, but on the 1973 map they are marked as statutory.
"The DCLG stated that, and I quote 'it is for a local council to seek their own legal advice with regard to whether or not allotment land should be classified as statutory and therefore need consent for disposal'.
"The Parish Council has obtained legal advice from counsel involved in setting case law in this matter. The advice is categorical that in this case no consent for disposal is required.
"The DCLG further stated and again I quote 'we understand that a council may designate allotment land as statutory and then, on taking further legal advice, realise that consent would not be needed for disposing of such land and so reclassify it as non statutory'.
"So it is clear that although the Heyes Lane site has, on one map been recorded as statutory, legal advice clearly shows that we do not need consent from the DCLG to change the use and therefore I propose that we reclassify Heyes Lane as non-statutory."
Cllr Keegan commented "The car park on Heyes Lane would be greatly beneficial to the village in the sense that South Street car park, which is long stay at the moment and fills up very early in the morning, could move to short stay and the long stay people could be accommodated on this site.
"We already have 44 permits wanting to go on to that site, the owners have indicated they want more, the transfer of the long stay people from South Street would be greatly beneficial besides freeing up South Street for short stay, limited waiting it will greatly benefit the centre of the village from the quicker turnover of people who want to shop in the village.
"We desperately need better parking for people who want to come and stay in the village for 2, 3 or 4 hours. One of the biggest benefits would be, when we have a car par which can accommodate quite a few cars, it would allow us to introduce limited waiting bays on residential streets so that the people who are currently plagued by all day parkers blocking their drives and access would be subjected to freedom in the sense they would have limited waiting bays on the road and the all-day parkers could not park there all day. So I think it would be greatly beneficial to adopt this move."
The five out of nine parish councillors who attended the meeting voted unanimously in favour of the motion to which members of the public shouted "shame, shame on you".
What do you think about the decision to replace the Heyes Lane allotments with a car park and build a new allotment site off Lydiat Lane? Share your views via the comment box below.
Comments
Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add your thoughts below.
Not remotely for the people of Alderley.
Exactly the same as the hall car park, when CEC returned it to the PC the parking spaces for the people of Alderley dissapeared and permits were issued.
Permits for parking = no spaces for locals.
Easy money for PC, no need to employ a warden.
Can we know which company in Alderley has these permits waiting for them?
Wouldn't be a builder would it?
They blame the PCT for taking over the hall and spaces when in fact, wouldn't it be only on the rare occasion that the Surgery and Hall will be used at the same time. With the surgery Mon - Fri and the Hall mainly evenings and weekend events?
The alternative parking solution could be Lydiat Lane, Heyes Lane Allotments are not the only option. That is unless there is some sort of donation tied in with this deal? That could explain the behaviour of the cllr's as I'm at a loss to understand how elected officials can repeatedly go against the obvious feelings of the villagers and with seemingly no dialogue?
As for the closed door decisions on whether or not to publish these legal findings, I would like to ask who paid for this report? If it came out of Parish Council coffers, then surely we have a right to see the report paid for with funds intended for the betterment of the people of the village? Local Government, just like it's big brother, needs to be transparent. I read the above and I worry about the integrity of our Parish Council.
It's no further away and it would mean the allotments don't have to be moved.
Either way, green space is going to be lost for a car park which people may or may not be willing to walk to...
http://bit.ly/1k7nDlu
It might be beneficial if certain members of AEPC were to reacquaint themselves with this document and reflect upon their recent behaviour.
A Freedom of Information Request should enable electors to see the "secret" legal advice.
AEPC have few resources, very little money and next to no respect. Are they worried? Of course not, most of them were not actually elected, they are only there because no one else stood against them. So they feel entitled to disregard the view of the electorate that never elected them.
I think we all know and accept the sort of man that Frank Keegan is. He drives a self serving agenda that intimidates the other councillors into embarrassed silence. The councillor that has most surprised me is Duncan Herald, a man that I once thought had a spine. However, it seems he changes his views more often than someone with OCD changes the tins in the cupboard. Earlier this year he took time out to come up with lots of ideas to solve the alleged parking issue in AE with the parking forum. Now he sees that there is only one solution; pave over paradise and put up a parking lot. What offends me the most about Duncan is the way he can take these things in such a humorous way. It is not funny Duncan, you have a responsibility, could you please take it seriously.
I raised a question at the start of the meeting in my allocated time to see if there was enough parish councillors to pass the resolution.
The answer was yes, the parish clerk has been on the relevant courses I believe to advise on this.
If the PC resolution to remove the statutory status from Heyes lane allotment holds any weight remains to be seen...
I'm hoping that we don't have a series of break ins at chorley hall lane now that we have been accused of smoking a class b drug
Regards
Fenton
Chairman
AEAGS (people who like to grow a few veg and flowers, maybe have a glass of wine or two at the end of a good days digging and like to hold an annual show each year)
I am not in league with anyone actually.
Many of the ideas that came from the parking forum have led to much activity in the village re. traffic etc. Its worth mentioning that I was unable to put most of the ideas to the Portfolio Holder as he refused to meet me on a one to one basis. Perhaps CEC didn't fancy a spot of local political activity?
Yes I have changed my mind about the proposed car park at Heyes Lane; as I can't see any better way of getting a sizeable increase in parking.
You don't care for mild humour? Sorry but I'm not prepared to descend to silly insults or a refusal to face the 'facts' over parking.Back in the day when I used to meet with chairmen of the allotments society, there was some humour, which may have helped prevent people digging their heels in and refusing to try for an amicable settlement.
The Heyes Lane allotments are not paradise, or was that you being humerous? They are a few scruffy allotments. By the way, the description of scruffy was given to me by actual allotment holders. You see, I go and talk to allotment holders, instead of pontificating!
If you don't believe that there is a drastic need for more parking, then i.m.h.o. you are just
plain wrong. No one has yet come up with any significantly improved way of getting a lot of extra parking. I spoke with a trader today who opined that unless the parking situation improves then within a year, more traders will have up-and-left.
You want a proper village with proper shops? Then take your heads out of the sand or you may end up with an allotment but no proper shops!
As for insults to Councillors: so be it, I have a thick skin I guess. But we were elected and an elected body has to make decisions. If you don't agree with the decisions, then stand in the next elections. No one agrees with all decisions; its called democracy.
Do the traders not realise the parking situation when they set up shop?
However, I will continue to persevere in the hope that at some point the penny will drop. Here goes:
Paving over the allotments on Heyes Lane WILL NOT make any difference to the challenging parking situation in the village. People who wish to shop in the village WILL NOT park there and walk into the village. There were always vacant, free parking spaces around the Festival Hall and there was always an availability issue for shoppers who wanted to park in the village.
Frankly (pun intended), to now shift to threatening those opposing the paving over of the Heyes Allotments with responsibility for the failure of retail business in the village is plunging to a new low. You seem to treat the residents of this community like children. You are not mentally superior to us, simply because you are local politicians and we are not. Everyone who has commented on this site acknowledges there is a parking problem in the village. Those who oppose the paving over of the allotments do not believe that is a solution that will work.
The idea of turning an open space into a car park was not decided on lightly. It is the only solution to the problems at hand. If we are to have a successful Medical Center, we need the car park, or perhaps people would prefer to travel to Wilmslow to see a doctor. If we are to have a successful Festival Hall, we need the car park, or perhaps we should continue subsidising the Hall to the tune of £50,000 per year. Maybe the bowling clubs could go to Wilmslow as well. If we want people who live here to be able to drive into the village and shop, we need the car park, or maybe as we all get older, we can walk to the shops to keep fit.
This Parish Council, which a few chose to deride, is delivering a new Medical Center at no cost to the tax payer. Indeed, in the future, it will produce a significant income for the benefit of the community. We will deliver a modern, flexible community hall, at no cost to the tax payer. By creating the new car park, we will be able to complete our parking strategy to support local business, to reduce the impact of all day parking in residential streets and to eliminate the dangerous parking in places like Trafford Road and Lynton Lane.
That is positive progress, from a Council with big influence, huge resources and a vision of how to make this village better.
Mike Williamson
Chairman, AEPC
Just a thought!
Secondly, why in such a flash are we able to paint double yellow lines all over the village when required, but we can't get the signage right to enforce the restrictions that are meant to be. I would suggest it's all in favour of the PC applying indirect pressure to the situation to arm there cause.
I like your optimism, thinking that there could be a compromise of any sort. Two of the speakers the other night, Messrs Tomlinson and Sanderson, still argue that the allotments are the property of Cheshire East Council.
There is a clear difference of opinion at the top of the Allotments Association, with the Vice Chair unwilling to countenance the fact that the allotments are now vested in AEPC, and the Chair asking on this site if the Parish Council will now pay the £500 per plot which was included in the budget for this year.
This mixture of muddle and intransigence does not bode well for a reasoned settlement.
The 9 people who stood were all candidates for the Conservative Party and they were all elected unopposed. This is how Alderley Edge ended up with its current parish councillors.
If you are unhappy with their actions then you have a chance to remove them from office in the next election which is due to take place in May 2015.
It is very simple to stand for your local Parish Council. I did it in Wilmslow only a few months ago having never stood before in any kind of election for public office. You don't have to be a member of any political party too as you can stand as an Independent. If you want change and want to know how to make this happen them please feel free to ask Lisa (the editor) to forward your details onto or ask Lisa for my contact details.
A good virtually ready made solution already exists on Chorley Hall Lane.
Alderley FC is getting a new ground down the road according to the PC.
Why not make your green car park there,weekdays during business hours (it is not used then) evenings and weekends it could be for community use.See dead easy no upset to anyone.No leases or covenants broken!!
Before this whole crazy mess is finalised why don't we look sensibly and seriously at how we might best solve our Village problems. There are very many more solutions than just blindly concreting over Heyes Lane. Maybe instead of spending money on trying to find clever ways of changing the status of Heyes Lane we should have spend some of our money on seeking the best advice from a Town and Country Planning consultancy. The Parish Council decided to do that for us!
Alternatively, we could sit down together with a new blank sheet of paper and write down the best options and then place this document into every household in our Village asking for their opinion. It shouldn't take long to do and had it been done by our PC at the outset we might not be in the messy situation we are in today.
On the current timescale it could be achieved before the NHS give the go ahead to build which I understand could be any time in the next few months or so - ish, maybe, bit difficult to say!!
those traders who have been in the village for years probably did not realise just how bad parking would get? Are you not simply putting blame onto the traders, rather than seeking a solution to the parking problem?
Sam,
as far as I am aware, the 'format' of a car park has not been significantly discussed, so if you have facts and costs at hand, please proffer them.
Claire,
you and I lock horns again. You write that people who wish to shop in the village will not park there; that is your opinion, which is different to mine. In any case, since several businesses wish to take parking at an Heyes Lane car park, won't that move workers' cars out of the village, thus hopefully freeing up spaces for shoppers?
I do not 'sling insults' by the way.
You claim that making an Heyes Lane car park won't solve matters; o.k. then what will? Please produce a viable and affordable alternative plan because the cars have to go somewhere don't they?
By the way, as CEC has bowed to public pressure by extending yellow lines past C.H. Lane, up the hill, do you not think that any time now CEC will do the same to Rileys Lane etc.?
Gary,
you write that the medical staff say that they don't see parking as a requirement...semantics?...I've been in meetings where the practice has said that parking would be helpful !
You suggest parking on the C.H.Lane footy pitches? Stand by for attacks uipon yourself from those to whom your suggestion is anathema !
Why yellow lines but lacking/incorrect signage? Because CEC got it wrong. We (the PC) keep telling them that they get it wrong and the CEC Officers weep with frustration at it all !
Stuart,
there has been at least one election where there were a Tory candidate and a non-Tory candidate; democracy chose the Tory candidate. A very good Parish Councillor she was too.
Terry,
the footy pitch is owned by CEC. We have tried to get them to let us use it for just one evening, for the xmas fair. No was their answer! So getting it used regularly? I wish you luck with that one. If by any chance you do manage to do so, I for one will bend the knee to you !
Mike,
the latest forecast re. starting to build the Medical centre (yes, I know we've had more proposed start dates than you've had hot whatsits!) is that enabling works will start in October. O.K. don't hold your breath but 'hopefully'.
O.K., I need to go lie down now.
Please do not misrepresent my words. YOUR suggestion, was a TUNNEL between Chorley Hall Lane, under the railway, into South Street. That IS wild and fanciful, apart from being enormously expensive. [running into many millions of pounds - and, by the way, the outage required to put a box bridge under the railway would take about 4 years in the planning process - even if Network Rail ever agreed] However, I commend myself for only calling it wild and fanciful!!
The lease for the Medical Centre will be signed in the next few weeks - the Parish Council is in the hands of Lawyers and NHS Officialdom, but you can see from the front of the Festival Hall that we have given approval to do preparatory works.
I like the positive way you think - clearly not all of your ideas are practical (that will have them writing “I can’t believe he said that to an elector”) but if you put your thinking cap on, we could devise a new format of allotment on Lydiat Lane to suit a much wider range of people. YOU know many people love the idea of an allotment, but allotment plot sizes are far too big for the busy family. After WWII, allotments were about food production, and even by 1973 the local maps showed that Alderley Edge had lost two allotment plots, so food production was becoming a lesser need even 40 years ago. The Parish Council is now seeking to add to the allotment land capacity, and to do it in an innovative manner.
You recognise that there is a major problem with parking in the village, but neither Lydiat Lane as a parking area, or Chorley Hall playing fields as a parking area would ever get off the ground - in purely planning terms.
Chorley Hall playing fields will never be given up as playing fields, not least because Cheshire East is being very dilatory about moving forward re Wilmslow Road, and the Football Club are not convinced that CHESHIRE EAST want to help them. If you think the allotment society is awkward, you are absolute novices compared to Cheshire East, and they have the resources to defend their intransigence.
The Parish Council consults every elector at election time. You missed out last time because you do not live within the boundary of Alderley Edge.
Yes Frank, my suggestion did mention a tunnel into South Street but the key part concerned the possibility of a central Village Car Park on the village end of Chorley Hall playing fields which are currently used for about 20 or so hours a year! That location would solve the Village parking problem for many years to come.Revenue from it could perhaps build a tunnel at some point in the future, could it not? In the meantime people could walk the short distance over the bridge.
You could so easily have suggested that the idea was sound in principle but it would not be accepted by Cheshire East - and a tunnel, whilst practical would be too costly. Instead you went off into some wild rant about 'after hours drinking' and the 'smoking of illegal substances' or similar words. It is not really what people expect or want to read from you or from a Council representing the Village interests.
The idea cannot possibly be 'wild and fanciful' as you have clearly thought about it too and put it to Cheshire East otherwise how would you know that they will or have already turned it down?!
How could we appeal against their decision?
Heyes Lane really will NOT achieve the solution this Village needs.
cue local resident gets shreaded by aepc :-)
If they get permission to build it give them a time scale and if it isn't built withdraw the permission.
This would help with parking,just renewing PP doesn't.
Mike's idea above, extending the existing park car park could be good contingent on some decent landscaping, tree planting etc.to lessen the impact.
Nice one!
regime anyway on the car park governing length of stay or pay.
As an ex-player for Alderley St Philips I'd be sad to see the football pitch disappear on Chorley Hall Lane, but that seems a much better location considering how much it's used. I can't see that happening though because when I was a player our management were told in a meeting with the council that funds were set aside for the football pitch from a local developer who donated money for its 'upkeep'. This will presumably materialise into a lucrative building contract sometime in the future, or is that just a 'wild and fanciful' idea?
Part of the plan was to extend the car park in the park temporarily, whilst the works were being carried out because The Parade car park would be out of use.
If I remember correctly this proposal was refused because of a covenant preventing the park from being used for a car park.
I'm sure one of the parish councillors will be able to correct me, or expand on this.
I suggested the extension of the park car park, as you suggest, a while ago..it was also suggested during the recent 'traffic forum'... however, many people were opposed to any encroachment into the park... to extend the existing park car park would involve uprooting a length of hedging and taking down 4 or 5 trees... to separate the new parking from the park would mean a new length of hedge and there planting more saplings than trees removed... the fairly small amount of land turned into a car park is not used for anything...well, I have seen a few drunks sleeping it off there!... it would also be fairly cheap i.e. dump hardcore and cover with a small amount of tarmac... probably about 20-30 spaces... this would not solve the long term problem but would help somewhat... you and I will now be excoriated as potential vandals ?
While we're at it, I also suggested, a few years ago, knocking down the whole of the festival Hall and starting again!
"Democracy is not when 10 allotment holders turn up. Democracy is when 1,500 people exercise their right to vote and 75% of them vote for the candidate who will deliver real benefits to the Ward."
I am assuming he was talking about himself and the fact that 1,125 people voted for him. My question is; surely 1,737 of the electorate signing a petition to essentially say they do not agree with him and AEPC, is a very powerful display of democracy in action. How can the AEPC ignore this?
No that isn't what I'm saying. I'm not putting blame onto traders or looking for a solution.
What I'm saying is,it should be like it or lump it, Alderleys a village, end of.
02/2571P which was withdrawn
http://bit.ly/1pskbki
and
03/1464P which was approved subject to conditions
http://bit.ly/1x1gneV
It is hard to recognise something we have not seen. People keep talking about numbers on a petition, but the scrappy pieces of paper we have seen are nowhere near the numbers quoted. If you tell me who has the definitive register of these electors then we will gladly look at it.
For all we know the petition could include Martin Dixon, which would be quite wrong since there is no such elector in the village.
I think you could still retain a full size football pitch and a similar size modest car park on the same site. Google sat map it and you will currently see an image that shows around 20 cars pitched up in the corner of the field that you can use for perspective.
Leaving space enough for a football field might assuage the negatives from a planning permission perspective.
I think you may have a really good point. I have had a little play and made a photo of Chorley Hall Lane with football pitch moved slightly and South Street car park copied over it. I think there are about 125 parking spaces. You can see the image at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13703157/Chorley%20hall%20lane%20car%20park.jpg
What do we think?
"Do you think it is time that you consulted your members about some of these “off the wall” ideas? In the interests of democracy, since it is a vital issue to the village, do you think such a meeting should be in public so that the public can attend and ask questions?"
For the record we have asked our members on the last two AGMs for their support on the Heyes lane issue and taken a show of hands on continuation of fight against turning it in to a car park.
But the idea of a public meeting is a brilliant idea ! I'm happy to organise this at festival hall.
I will raise this at next weeks PC meeting.
Fenton
Chairman AEAGS
Note Trevor's comment re. the changing rooms, you air brushed them out.
I reckon they could be moved into the south corner of the field depending on how much wonga (topical) is on the table for a good solution.
To summarise then:
1) Potential expansion to ryleys lane park car park (see above posts)
2) Martin's Chorley Hall lane football pitch parking
The total number of spaces getting in the zone of Heyes lane capacity.
A potential solution that might mean I don't have to dress up in a giant marrow costume and chain myself to the allotment railings come the day.
I don't suppose that it has occurred to you that the two "non-residents" you have been so dismissive towards might just be two of the "out of town worker/parkers" you have been so assiduously fighting for?
Your remarkable (I hesitate to use the word swaggering) stance on this subject flies in the face of what could be considered normal; assuming that you wish to continue to serve the AE electors in the future.
Don't trouble yourself checking the electoral role for my name; I'm about as close to the border as it gets though.
those who wish to preserve the Heyes Lane allotments, understandably write that the proposed car park there is neither needed nor wanted; but with no evidence that it is not needed.
Of course, you might say that equally there is no evidence that it is needed; but there is evidence that parking is needed and the proposed car park would provide a lot of parking.
Alas I can't match your 50 years; I'm just a new-boy of a mere 30 years. But with your experience, can you advocate a serious alternative to a car park at Heyes Lane please?
There is evidence that the Festival Hall car park was underutilised for many years from the revenue; this is proof that shoppers will not park and walk. There is also evidence that the number of shops in the village has decreased and traders saying they are experiencing decreased foot fall. So we have an increase in traffic with reduced shops and decreased shoppers – doesn’t sound right. I also believe there is a further issue in that shoppers in Alderley wish to park for free rather than pay. I have NEVER troubled to park in the village when willing to pay.
Extending a car park on a site which was (and still is) underutilised is not a wise plan. The festival hall planning application and statement from the doctors themselves say there is adequate parking for the Festival Hall with the existing plot; despite how much other councillors (and the last chairman’s statement) attempt to link the two I think we are in agreement that it would be nice for extra spaces but not essential.
It would benefit the council if they “come clean” in an official statement saying that the Heyes Lane car park is not necessary for the Festival Hall and would be primarily used for employees of the traders in the village – freeing up the village car parks for non-residents like Messrs Keegan and Dixon. This would give us a platform for an honest discussion about the plot instead of the frequent miss-speaking of council members.
Personalities aside, it is undeniable that the change of Heyes Lane allotments is a hot topic and something the village cares about. Suggestions are made and shot down with “thought of that”, “refused by landlord”, etc. Asking for suggestions and then overly aggressive responses isn’t healthy. If anything is crying out for a pause and a proper discussion, it is this topic.
Another suggestion for the pot. The car park behind the post office and personal trainers on West Street, I believe is a multi-story and predominantly empty (both top and bottom). If a deal can be negotiated with a private school then why not with whoever owns that car park. Keep it a trader’s only arrangement so not open to the wider public.
your first point about underutilisation of the Hall car park hitherto is a good one. Two things occur to me (1) no one bothered to check whether users bought a ticket or not/ and (2) CEC generally speaking couldn't organise an alcohol festival in a hops factory?
I didn't quite understand your second point (must be my age!) but when you write that there are 'decreased shoppers', that should be put perhaps with the traders point that lack of parking is at least a large factor in the lowered footfall?
Medics would find Hall parking nice? Agreed with by me.
Your next point about the council coming clean about the aim/point of the proposed Hall car park; I have often said that my view/s of why it is needed has 'evolved' as the discussion has progressed. Some say that's because I have no backbone but I claim it shows that I've listened to the discussion and altered my view accordingly.You pays your money, you takes your choice!
Yes people have put forward recently various other suggestions; I wish they had done so way back. As you'll have noticed, the enabling works at the front of the Hall are underway, so time is running out.
The owner of the West St. car park has I assume a 'deal' with the business/s that rent it from him. Tied in? I don't know.
Do you have a view on the possibility that the Heyes Lane (small) allotments site could be replaced by a (larger) Lydiatt lane allotments site?
And what about the idea of extending the Park's car park? I am surprised that such a proposal has not brought forth much response.
"The enabling works at the front of the Hall are underway, so time is running out."
This is great news that the work on the new medical centre is going ahead. This is happening despite the fact that there is no agreements with the allotment holders on Heyes Lane, no lifting of covenants, no lease signed with AESG, no agreement from the Secretary of State, and no planning application for the change of use of the allotments to a car park. It just goes to prove that the development of the Festival Hall never depended on changing the allotments into a car park. I feel a huge sense of relief.
The Festival Hall development planning application was passed by CEC with the 40 car parking spaces on the plans. I assume that they thought that was sufficient.
So, who or what is "time running out" for?
It’s great that you agree with many of my points but concerning given so many questions unanswered you still progress forward. We fully understand that views can be shifted and the thinking on matters evolve, maybe time for another re-think?
I too wish the council was open to listening to other suggests earlier. This site is an excellent documentary record of who proposed what and when. Many of the leading points have been raised over 12 months ago – possibly look at why the council was not open to hearing them rather than trying to blame the electorate for not proposing them?
My personal view on Heyes Lane allotments is
(1) They are a coveted green space within the centre of the village and must be kept as allotments. We have enough green space outside of the village, the point lost is it’s in the centre.
(2) The councils plan to provide extra allotments on Lydiatt lane is good news but should not be linked to Heyes Lane. There has been no explanation put forward why the two are linked aside from them both being allotments.
(3) The Lydiatt Lane site could also be used for all day parking, the costs used as an argument significantly diminish when you think of the work required at Heyes Lane. It’s also a bigger site so would generate more revenue.
(4) Heyes Lane is a residential street and a speedy rat run for locals. Pets are frequently killed on the road due to excessive speed. It is on the walk into the village for many school children. Any increased traffic on this road needs to be assessed; as do traffic calming measures.
(5) Extending the Park’s car park is a good one, as is the playing fields idea. It is further proof that there are solutions which causes less of an impact available but not willingly listened to.
The banner erected at the Heyes Lane allotment site and as clearly shown in the picture at the top of this article states ‘’Save this Precious Green Space’’ ‘’Say NO to a Carpark’’ and ‘’ONCE IT’S GONE ITS GONE FOREVER’’ these same statements apply to The Park and Chorley Hall Lane Playing Field and more so (it is therefore very unfair to suggest and advocate their even part destruction as a solution - there will never be any suitable alternative space available for any loss of these areas).
Do appreciate the village parking issue and unfortunately I doubt I would be able to resolve in this forum. However do we need to start at the beginning first? Can / have we as a village done enough work to fully understand the parking problem - who is parking? where? why? how long? Do they have alternative transport means? Can we engage with the businesses? Schools? Rail? is a professional independent report available? Can we improve / expand existing facilities? Should we change / improve restrictions.
Please do not destroy this village by even considering removing / reducing the central green spaces of The Park and Chorley Hall Lane playing field in particular, you will never get these central green spaces back and they will be needed and used long after the car disappears and even considering "nibbling" at these areas will be the villages biggest regret and mistake.
Thanks Chris
The village (more like a town) has enough green space - We have a park in the centre.
The small car park for the park should NOT be altered - we should not loose any more of the grass.
A new car park on Heyes Lane may SLOW DOWN speeding cars if of course an entrance/exit was made on Heys Lane
The Lydiatt Lane site should NOT be used for parking due to it's green belt and Lydiatt Lane is too narrow for cars/vans moving in both directions - ie not one way.
Once we get started on the Hall & new car park all the other proposals will fall into place !
I'll leave detailed discussion for others, for the time being: but look at the overall picture from a Council's point of view.
Increase the size of the Park parking area: people are against.
Allow parking on CHL playing field: people are against.
Put cars on Heyes Lane: people are against.
Lessen the amount of green space: people are against.
Heyes Lane allotments are IN the village but L. Lane is OUT of the village: what ?
There is a major parking problem in the village: people say there isn't.
Is it any wonder that I sometimes bang my head on a wall?
I wish there was a magic wand that could be waved, to solve the parking problem, to the satisfaction of all !
A small point re. who uses car parks. I did a 'look' at the car park in the Park, some months ago (the figures reported on here I seem to recall): over 60% of its users are there all day. Whether these folk are people working in the village or (as has been suggested by others) are people who commute by train and put their cars in the Park car park until their evening return, I do not know.
Time for me to shut up for a while and stop hogging this space.
There have been a few remarks/suggestions that whereas Heyes Lane allotments are 'in' the village, Lydiatt Lane is 'out' of the village.
If we take the length of London Rd., between Heyes Lane and Chorley Hall Lane as the centre of the village and Barclays Bank as the mid-point of that stretch of London Rd.
From the Festival Hall to Barclays Bank is 385 of my strides and from Barclays Bank to the top of the road to the Lydiatt Lane field (Netherfields/Beech Cottages) is 375 of my paces.
So perhaps we should accept that the two sites are equidistant?
Also the 'field' has room for a length of hardstanding, thus parking, which Heyes Lane site does not.
You can see the parish boundaries (purple dashed lines) clearly on OpenStreetMap:
http://bit.ly/1uQmhBK
Or on the Ornance Survey 1:25k maps (black dotted lines). This one also shows field boundaries:
http://binged.it/1BIkldi